King Tiger, Winter Camouflage 1945

[PhilJ]

Great dio, love the composition. I know you have phone problems but it's a shame about the photos.


Nicely done


Cheers


Phil

 

[dubster72]

Rivethead, rivethead!

So true Phil!

 

[american]

I have to say that's a great dio, I'm feeling cold just looking at it... brrr!
At the risk of being called a rivethead (!) , there's very little evidence to show German vehicles being whitewashed during the Ardennes campaign.


Snow didn't begin falling until Dec 23/24, a week after the battle began.


Also Tiger IIs with zimmerit would also have been unlikely as most German tanks fighting there would have been built after September, when the addition of zimmerit had ceased.


Is that ok to say? I can always edit this post if required

 

[american]

Great dio, love the composition. I know you have phone problems but it's a shame about the photos.
Nicely done


Cheers


Phil

After a large number of photos I succeeded to save some pictures.

 

[dubster72]

View attachment 139962

Nice try! But this is 03 of Abteilung 506 abandoned in January 1945 after the relief of Bastogne, which is clearly in ambush pattern camouflage

 

[american]

Nice try! But this is 03 of Abteilung 506 abandoned in January 1945 after the relief of Bastogne, which is clearly in ambush pattern camouflage
View attachment 139971

Well, is not entirely my fault, my Google search make me to do that mistake. All I have to do is to change the name of this thread.

 

[dubster72]

Well, is not entirely my fault, my Google search make me to do that mistake. All I have to do is to change the name of this thread.

Well it's not a mistake as such - it's your model & you can finish it however you want


I was just pointing out that many books, references are flawed. Taking this one as a case in point, once the battle was joined, the Germans had tremendous difficulties in supplying their troops with fuel, ammunition & food. So shipping cans of whitewash was probably not high on the QM's list!


A similar situation existed during Operation Typhoon as the Germans closed in on Moscow.


But none of that detracts from a great dio

 

[spanner570]

Excellent diorama, Catalin. I do love working with 'snow' and this is a great result working with this effect.


This is just a quiet comment, as I don't know much about tank going's on to the enth degree, but I do read history.


So.......


Can it be categorically stated anywhere with 100% certainty, that there wasn't a single Tiger II pasted with zimmerit present at the Ardennes offensive?


Can it be categorically stated anywhere with 100% certainty that once the snow started, a quick thinking Tiger II crew, didn't scrounge a big tin of white wash from somewhere and quickly slapped it on just before going in to combat?


It's my guess is that no one knows, or ever will know the answer to these two questions....Irrespective what the books say - They sometimes contradict each other anyway!


It really doesn't matter a fig about right or wrong...This is one superb bit of modelling......

 

[american]

No , my mistake. I suppose to frame this scene with Mother Russia as enemy. Zimmerit had only one purpose .... To offer a kind of protection against the magnetic bomb, mines. Specialists in this kind of war was: Russian soldiers.

 

[takeslousyphotos]

Personally. It doesn't really matter when, how, what or wasn't ........ It's a damn fine bit of modelling.

 

[dubster72]

Excellent diorama, Catalin. I do love working with 'snow' and this is a great result working with this effect.
This is just quiet comment, and I'm sure as h**l aint going to debate it as I don't know much about tank going's on to the enth degree, but I do read history.


So.......


Can it be categorically stated anywhere with 100% certainty, that there wasn't a single Tiger II pasted with zimmerit present at the Ardennes offensive?


Can it be categorically stated anywhere with 100% certainty that once the snow started, a quick thinking Tiger II crew, didn't scrounge a big tin of white wash from somewhere and quickly slapped it on just before going in to combat?


It's my guess is that no one knows, or ever will know the answer to these two questions....Irrespective what the books say - They sometimes contradict each other anyway!

Ron, you'll notice in my original post that I said " very little evidence " & " unlikely ", simply because my references and knowledge aren't perfect - there's always a chance that the contrary proves the rule.


However, as the photo I posted shows, that particular Tiger had no whitewash at the time of its capture.


Also. Tiger ausf Bs were few in number during the Normandy campaign & none survived the headlong retreat back to the Westwall after the Allied breakout at St. Lo.


So with zimmerit application phased out in September '44, I would say with absolute certainty no Tigers (except for a few Tiger Is) had zimmerit during Wacht am Rhine.

 

[John Rixon]

I have to say that's a great dio, I'm feeling cold just looking at it... brrr!
At the risk of being called a rivethead (!) , there's very little evidence to show German vehicles being whitewashed during the Ardennes campaign.


Snow didn't begin falling until Dec 23/24, a week after the battle began.


Also Tiger IIs with zimmerit would also have been unlikely as most German tanks fighting there would have been built after September, when the addition of zimmerit had ceased.


Is that ok to say? I can always edit this post if required

Rivet head!

 

[John Rixon]

Ah, I'm late with that one...


Still, rivet head!

 

[spanner570]

Patrick, my dear chap. You'll notice in my post I didn't mention you or your post, I was merely suggesting to the members generally that I don't think anyone, books or otherwise could possibly account for every minute, every movement of every vehicle during the fluidity of war.......

 

[dubster72]

Patrick, my dear chap. You'll notice in my post I didn't mention you or your post, I was merely suggesting to the members generally that I don't think anyone, books or otherwise could possibly account for every minute, every movement of every vehicle during the fluidity of war.......

Very true Ron, but as it was me who raised the point originally, I thought it only fair that I should respond.


You are quite right that a lot of information is either unclear or incorrect. Much of it has been lost or corrupted over time.

 

[noble]

Nice little diorama.

 

[john i am]

. If it's correct or not doesn't really detract from that its a great piece of work in my eyes. I'm no expert in this field and not big on authenticity anyways.(it's my model)


There are those that are though and I fully respect and appreciate their input and help on these maters which can either be acted upon or ignored. Cheers John

 

[american]

Thank you all for prompt responses. Apart from being a nice diorama, I have to admit it! I blown up the reality of the scene!

 

[american]

So thread' s title is changed, daytime pictures uploaded, I believe my job is done. Thank you all!

 

[Lee W]

In my eyes there is no right or wrong in modelling, you do it, if it looks the dogs then we'll done, if it doesn't look good to someone else...who cares, it's how you feel.


Me, I like this dio, great work on making it look bloody cold!


Lee