T
T. van Vuuren
Guest
Would this be early or late war planes Steve?
What would the reasoning be behind the mottle only on the tail???
Were all 262 in a "standard" tipe of cammo, or wouls say the pure fighters be painted different to the bombers maybe.Or can one reason that as you stated earlier - the rulebook was basically tossed in the bin and what ever worked was put on??? LOL
Theuns
What would the reasoning be behind the mottle only on the tail???
Were all 262 in a "standard" tipe of cammo, or wouls say the pure fighters be painted different to the bombers maybe.Or can one reason that as you stated earlier - the rulebook was basically tossed in the bin and what ever worked was put on??? LOL
Theuns
stona
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They started training with the Me262 in April 1944 but it didn't really begin operations until July that year. The Germans surrendered in May 1945 so the aircraft only had 10 months of operation.
Those Novotny aircraft would I suppose be early. The W.Nr for the Me262 are bizarrely non sequential. The first block were 130xxx followed by 170xxx and then 110xxx. There were several after these. Those profiles belong to the latter two blocks. 170047 was produced at Schwabisch Hall and 110400 at Leipheim.
Who knows why they mottled the tail. Maybe they were delivered in RLM 76 and the squadron did it,maybe it was done at the assembly plant. In the photo I attached above all the machines look to have a similar mottle which would suggest a factory application. Someone might be able to identify a plant from the style of mottle,not me,not for Me262s!
All Me262s were supposed to have the standard Messerschmitt,RLM approved, scheme for their production period,irrespective of the dash type. This seems to have been widely interpreted.
I think it is true that the emphasis for production/assembly facilities throughout the production of the Me262 was on getting the airframes out. Compromises were certainly made,by the end they were being sent out completely unpainted and with very crude national markings sprayed on.
Cheers
Steve
Those Novotny aircraft would I suppose be early. The W.Nr for the Me262 are bizarrely non sequential. The first block were 130xxx followed by 170xxx and then 110xxx. There were several after these. Those profiles belong to the latter two blocks. 170047 was produced at Schwabisch Hall and 110400 at Leipheim.
Who knows why they mottled the tail. Maybe they were delivered in RLM 76 and the squadron did it,maybe it was done at the assembly plant. In the photo I attached above all the machines look to have a similar mottle which would suggest a factory application. Someone might be able to identify a plant from the style of mottle,not me,not for Me262s!
All Me262s were supposed to have the standard Messerschmitt,RLM approved, scheme for their production period,irrespective of the dash type. This seems to have been widely interpreted.
I think it is true that the emphasis for production/assembly facilities throughout the production of the Me262 was on getting the airframes out. Compromises were certainly made,by the end they were being sent out completely unpainted and with very crude national markings sprayed on.
Cheers
Steve
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T
T. van Vuuren
Guest
This build just keeps getting more interesting with every reply.
I will re-read my copy of the "Aircraft of the aces - German jet aces" There are some good collour plates in there aswell ,and the one Ilike is the same as your Kommando Nowotny ,Hesepe Oct 1944. #"white 1" wk-nr 170047 flown by Lt. Franz Schall.
It is however a 262 1a1 and not a 2a, however I will take some "artistic liberty". The splinter cammo is almost to the bottom of the fuse.It and the mottle on the tail has a sharp edge to it wich should make painting a lillte easier.
Does any one have pix of the top view to show the cammo perhaps ????
Theuns
I will re-read my copy of the "Aircraft of the aces - German jet aces" There are some good collour plates in there aswell ,and the one Ilike is the same as your Kommando Nowotny ,Hesepe Oct 1944. #"white 1" wk-nr 170047 flown by Lt. Franz Schall.
It is however a 262 1a1 and not a 2a, however I will take some "artistic liberty". The splinter cammo is almost to the bottom of the fuse.It and the mottle on the tail has a sharp edge to it wich should make painting a lillte easier.
Does any one have pix of the top view to show the cammo perhaps ????
Theuns
stona
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Theuns I can scan the copy of original Messerschmitt document for you in a bit. I'll have to use SWMBO's office computer which she's busy on at the moment. It shows how the splinter should have been applied. The few images that show the upper surface of the wings would suggest that it was followed reasonably well.
Steve
Edit. You're in luck,I already have them!
From "Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945" by Michael Ullmann.
Steve
Edit. You're in luck,I already have them!
From "Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945" by Michael Ullmann.
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G
garethm
Guest
Hi Theuns and Steve, Have eventally managed to download some pics from Vol 4. They depict Me262`s from british testing at Farnborough and also I have included a picture of Black X tested by the RAAF then shipped to Australia, I believe it is still undergoing restoration. If I can help with any other pics, please let me know. Gareth.
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2824.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2623.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2622.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2621.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2824.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2623.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2622.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2621.jpg
T
T. van Vuuren
Guest
All thumbs way up lads!
I see in pix 3 that the 262 is already "down-under" LOL!
After looking spcifically at ground shots in my 262 book a few things stood out
1. very few 262's had the slats and flaps down while on the groung (good for me,less work)
2. Most of the pix depict the planes on wide open grass aerodromes, as one would expect.Only 1 pic shows my idea of a "bare minimum" airfield with a 262 (less engines) in the woods next to the autobhan. So an open field it will be for the diorama.
3. Interesting that the idea of JG7 was to use experten bomber pilots as 262 jocks because they had "C" rating and was good at instument long range flying.BUT fighting the 262 in ACM was not their domain.
Thanx for the effort guys
Hopefully I will get my grubby little hands on this kit tomorrow.
Theuns
I see in pix 3 that the 262 is already "down-under" LOL!
After looking spcifically at ground shots in my 262 book a few things stood out
1. very few 262's had the slats and flaps down while on the groung (good for me,less work)
2. Most of the pix depict the planes on wide open grass aerodromes, as one would expect.Only 1 pic shows my idea of a "bare minimum" airfield with a 262 (less engines) in the woods next to the autobhan. So an open field it will be for the diorama.
3. Interesting that the idea of JG7 was to use experten bomber pilots as 262 jocks because they had "C" rating and was good at instument long range flying.BUT fighting the 262 in ACM was not their domain.
Thanx for the effort guys
Hopefully I will get my grubby little hands on this kit tomorrow.
Theuns
stona
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Nice one Gareth,I knew there were a load in Vol4. I'm going to make an effort to track mine down!
Theuns it is impossible to underestimate the effect of internal Luftwaffe politics at this time. When Galland was forming JV44 one of his first recruits was Steinhoff who had effectively been sacked as commander of JG7. Galland was determined to form a "squadron of experten" and went about recruiting many top aces who,for political reasons, had been thrown on the scrap heap. According to both Galland and Steinhoff when JV44 was forming,on the same airfield as JG7, orders were given to members of JG7 not to offer any aid or equipment to the "mutineers". Officers of JG7 demanded that Steinhoff returned a motorcycle which he had appropriated from them. Emboldened by Galland (who was still well connected) he claims he took the machine across the airfield to JG7 and told them they couldn't have it.
JG7 was formed from KG1 (the bomber connection) and the remains of Kommando Novotny (which had been largely inactive since Novotny's death on 7/11/44).
You wouldn't believe that Germany was fighting for its life at the same time!
Forgot to say that the Me262s liked to operate from concrete strips as they had a nasty habit of setting stuff on fire when they started their engines! They may very well have been dispersed on the grassy margins. Have you seen pictures of the tail-sitting prototypes? talk about fire starters.
I just dug out that book (the Osprey one). That looks like a nice profile and not too much mottling!
Cheers
Steve
Theuns it is impossible to underestimate the effect of internal Luftwaffe politics at this time. When Galland was forming JV44 one of his first recruits was Steinhoff who had effectively been sacked as commander of JG7. Galland was determined to form a "squadron of experten" and went about recruiting many top aces who,for political reasons, had been thrown on the scrap heap. According to both Galland and Steinhoff when JV44 was forming,on the same airfield as JG7, orders were given to members of JG7 not to offer any aid or equipment to the "mutineers". Officers of JG7 demanded that Steinhoff returned a motorcycle which he had appropriated from them. Emboldened by Galland (who was still well connected) he claims he took the machine across the airfield to JG7 and told them they couldn't have it.
JG7 was formed from KG1 (the bomber connection) and the remains of Kommando Novotny (which had been largely inactive since Novotny's death on 7/11/44).
You wouldn't believe that Germany was fighting for its life at the same time!
Forgot to say that the Me262s liked to operate from concrete strips as they had a nasty habit of setting stuff on fire when they started their engines! They may very well have been dispersed on the grassy margins. Have you seen pictures of the tail-sitting prototypes? talk about fire starters.
I just dug out that book (the Osprey one). That looks like a nice profile and not too much mottling!
Cheers
Steve
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G
garethm
Guest
Hi gents, have just taken some piccies of my Me262 with kettenkraft, it was made many years ago and the colours are not exact but you can see ( I hope ) what a nice kit it is.
IMG]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/Me262K4.jpg[/img]
Happy sticking Gareth.
IMG]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/Me262K4.jpg[/img]
Happy sticking Gareth.
G
garethm
Guest
Forgot this one, silly me? blame the computer! or global warming.
Gareth
Gareth
T
T. van Vuuren
Guest
Very nice Gateth!
I got the kit today and then and there desided I must have the Tamiya Me 109E aswell LOL!
At a glance the kit will be the most detailed one I have done to date ,will have to see abuot the fit, but the detail is outstanding to say the least,as you can tell it is my first "name brand" Tamiya.The only reason I got it is that it was only 60% the normal price
Steve the decals are for
a. KG51 Rheine Sept '44 (red B) mottle all over
b. KG51 Eidelweiss Rheine Oct'44 weird squigly "meander" tipe cammo all over
c. KG51 Autum'44 with splinter on the wings and very fine meander on the tail and fuse.
I like Gareth's more!
Interesting I read the test pilot of the taildragger 262 could only raise the tail by aplying a dab of brakes during the takeoff runn.This was needless to say very risky and nose overs were eazy!
I can't wait to get stuck into this (or even the 109) build!
Theuns
I got the kit today and then and there desided I must have the Tamiya Me 109E aswell LOL!
At a glance the kit will be the most detailed one I have done to date ,will have to see abuot the fit, but the detail is outstanding to say the least,as you can tell it is my first "name brand" Tamiya.The only reason I got it is that it was only 60% the normal price
Steve the decals are for
a. KG51 Rheine Sept '44 (red B) mottle all over
b. KG51 Eidelweiss Rheine Oct'44 weird squigly "meander" tipe cammo all over
c. KG51 Autum'44 with splinter on the wings and very fine meander on the tail and fuse.
I like Gareth's more!
Interesting I read the test pilot of the taildragger 262 could only raise the tail by aplying a dab of brakes during the takeoff runn.This was needless to say very risky and nose overs were eazy!
I can't wait to get stuck into this (or even the 109) build!
Theuns