M
Mark P
Guest
Start out with non expensive stuff Mark and then as you progress and if you enjoy it you can go up to the more expensive. Talk to John who owns the shop and he will put you on the right track 
T
The Z'eer
Guest
Start out with non expensive stuff Mark and then as you progress and if you enjoy it you can go up to the more expensive. Talk to John who owns the shop and he will put you on the right track
Thanks for the reply
would it not be better to buy equipment which is more middle of the road rather than budget gear or high end stuff? I quite like the idea of a compressor which is versatile in that the pressure is adjustable.
M
Mark P
Guest
Yes middle of the road mate as some budget stuff will put you off for life B| . Adjustable compressor is a must as certain paints spray better at different pressures! It really is each to his own when it comes to nozzle sizes and spray pressures but a great idea (which is not mine) is to save a load of empty milk cartons and learn to spray on them
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2013
- Messages
- 385
- Points
- 43
- First Name
- Neil
Mark - start saving a few 2 litre pop bottles - excellent for practice.
John did me a decent deal though I think the AB itself is along the lines of acrylics/enamels - there are opinions good and bad on all. I have an H&S which I have only used a few times so far but seemed very straightforward. I started with a model rather than bottles but that is only because it is a single colour of desert yellow, I do need to practice with throughput and spread with some bottles before tackling real cammo though.
On a quick attempt I have to say that I am going to enjoy using an AB in the main and brushes for detail.
John did me a decent deal though I think the AB itself is along the lines of acrylics/enamels - there are opinions good and bad on all. I have an H&S which I have only used a few times so far but seemed very straightforward. I started with a model rather than bottles but that is only because it is a single colour of desert yellow, I do need to practice with throughput and spread with some bottles before tackling real cammo though.
On a quick attempt I have to say that I am going to enjoy using an AB in the main and brushes for detail.
D
dubster72
Guest
Mark your best bet for a decent starter compressor is the AS 186 which comes with a tank. The pressure regulator gives a wide range of control, from 5 - 50 PSI. The tank reduces the strain on the motor & helps prevent pulsing.
For airbrushes, the sky's the limit... or whatever your wallet can stand! If you want to keep it simple, the Fenghua airbrush that John sells in the Scale Model Shop is very good and way outperforms its cheap price.
Midrange a good AB is the Harder & Steenbeck Ultra with their Infinity as a more expensive alternative.
For airbrushes, the sky's the limit... or whatever your wallet can stand! If you want to keep it simple, the Fenghua airbrush that John sells in the Scale Model Shop is very good and way outperforms its cheap price.
Midrange a good AB is the Harder & Steenbeck Ultra with their Infinity as a more expensive alternative.
Mark - I second Patrick about the AS186 as a good starter compressor which should be available at well under £100. I started with one that lasted neary 4 years before I replaced it with something a bit more expensive.
I also agree about Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes. They are among the easiest to strip down and clean and there are plenty of interchangeable spares.
The Ultra is a good starter a/b but for somethig better I would suggest the Evolution which is between the Ultra and the Infinity. I use the Evo and see no need for a more expensive one. You can get different needle sets that can be interchangeble for these. Do not get the 0.15 needle as that is too fine for most model paints. Many people work with the 0.2 needle but I prefer the 0.4 needle for 90% of my spraying and use the 0.2 just for the finer work.
Then you come to paints....
I recommend using paints that are made for airbrushing as they have a finer pigment. Vallejo Model Air is a good starting point as they have a wide colour range. These can be sprayed unthinned with the 0.4 needle which saves a lot of the learning curve..... You do need to thin a bit for the 0.2 and some people (not me) like to thin them for preference anyway. Thin them with Vallejo thinners for best overall results.
I also agree about Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes. They are among the easiest to strip down and clean and there are plenty of interchangeable spares.
The Ultra is a good starter a/b but for somethig better I would suggest the Evolution which is between the Ultra and the Infinity. I use the Evo and see no need for a more expensive one. You can get different needle sets that can be interchangeble for these. Do not get the 0.15 needle as that is too fine for most model paints. Many people work with the 0.2 needle but I prefer the 0.4 needle for 90% of my spraying and use the 0.2 just for the finer work.
Then you come to paints....
I recommend using paints that are made for airbrushing as they have a finer pigment. Vallejo Model Air is a good starting point as they have a wide colour range. These can be sprayed unthinned with the 0.4 needle which saves a lot of the learning curve..... You do need to thin a bit for the 0.2 and some people (not me) like to thin them for preference anyway. Thin them with Vallejo thinners for best overall results.
Last edited by a moderator:
stona
SMF Supporter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 11,472
- Points
- 113
- First Name
- Steve
Sound advice above.
I would just add that you will probably be looking for a spray booth/ extraction system unless you are spraying in wide open spaces, and you should invest in the correct mask to protect yourself. Although our typical exposure to fumes and particulates is relatively small as 'hobby sprayers', and painting models is not an inherently dangerous pastime, there is no point in taking chances with your health.
The investment in setting up to spray is one of the largest most of us make in the hobby, but it is an investment in equipment that should last for many, many years. At least one of my airbrushes is over twenty years old, and it still works as well as ever, albeit with a few replacement bits. My spray booth must be at least ten years old and has only needed a couple of replacement filters in that time. Masks, or their filters, do need replacing more often but this is not a big expense.
Cheers
Steve
I would just add that you will probably be looking for a spray booth/ extraction system unless you are spraying in wide open spaces, and you should invest in the correct mask to protect yourself. Although our typical exposure to fumes and particulates is relatively small as 'hobby sprayers', and painting models is not an inherently dangerous pastime, there is no point in taking chances with your health.
The investment in setting up to spray is one of the largest most of us make in the hobby, but it is an investment in equipment that should last for many, many years. At least one of my airbrushes is over twenty years old, and it still works as well as ever, albeit with a few replacement bits. My spray booth must be at least ten years old and has only needed a couple of replacement filters in that time. Masks, or their filters, do need replacing more often but this is not a big expense.
Cheers
Steve
Steve Brodie
SMF Supporter
[SIZE=10pt]I have the AS186 compressor and its doing just fine, bit noisy but ti gives constant set pressure for the brush. I also had a cheap Chinese airbrush , came as a set, lasted about 6-7 sprays and then - Nothing. nothing would spray not even water, stripped it down many times but always blocked, so thinking it would be a good move I purchased a Neo by Iwata, that lasted about 6 months, took it to the model show at telford and spoke to the airbrush company and the nozzle was split !, £18 for a new nozzle or £22 for a new airbrush with 3 extra needles/nozzles so went for that one. touch wood I have not had a problem with it at all since last November and its had some hammering, but still going strong. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Ohh other thing, make sure you use thinner and paint by the same manufacturer. Tamiya paints and Vallejo thinners makes a nasty gooey, sticky mess which is a right PITA to get out and cleaned LOL.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Ohh other thing, make sure you use thinner and paint by the same manufacturer. Tamiya paints and Vallejo thinners makes a nasty gooey, sticky mess which is a right PITA to get out and cleaned LOL.[/SIZE]
T
The Z'eer
Guest
Yes middle of the road mate as some budget stuff will put you off for life B| . Adjustable compressor is a must as certain paints spray better at different pressures! It really is each to his own when it comes to nozzle sizes and spray pressures but a great idea (which is not mine) is to save a load of empty milk cartons and learn to spray on them
I could get hold of plastic milk bottles, however would clear plastic water bottles work just as well?
I bought an airbrush kit back in the late 80 s. The Kit was made by Humbrol and required aerosols to power it. It was cheap and I wasn't happy with the results, despite experimenting with different nozzles and ratio of paint things didn't work out. It seemed to splutter and splatter the paint as opposed to fine consistent spray.
T
The Z'eer
Guest
I would imagine that most of the airbrushes usage will see the painting of model cars.
I bought many of the Revell, AMT, and Monogram kits back in the 80 s as a child. Hot Rod s and Muscle Car s really held an interest.
Time passed and thankfully I now have the real thing However I had not forgetten the enjoyment that building those plastic model kits brought, and so here I am decades later returning to an old but fulfilling hobby, and unlike the real thing doesn't cost me a fortune in petrol (9 mpg).
I always used Humbrol Enamel paints, I'm guessing their still available? I kinda like the idea of mixing out the thinners and paint. Is their an advantage of acrylic over enamel?
T
The Z'eer
Guest
Thanks
The A S 186 seems to be a good starting point then. Ideally I'd like to buy something that will suit my needs for many years to come.
The A S 186 seems to have broad offering of pressure as you mention. I've heard some say that they do upgrade, may I ask why? Surely there isn't that much to a compressor?
Steve Brodie
SMF Supporter
yep no discernible Smell or nasty fumes when airbrushing, no nasty clean up afterwards with turps or whatever you need when using acrylics. can use plain water to clean the brush if all else fails.
T
The Z'eer
Guest
Thank you for an in depth description
Can I asked why you moved on from the A S 186? The noise doesn't really bother me, just looking to buy something which will suit my needs for years to come.
When it comes to air brushes is there massive differences in quality, design and purpose? Are some more difficult to use than others?
Never heard of Vallejo paints before, then again it's over 25 years since I've built any plastic kit. Is this paint enamel? Cleaning out the airbrush is a pain staking task?
stona
SMF Supporter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 11,472
- Points
- 113
- First Name
- Steve
The acrylic v enamel debate will always generate more heat than light.
I am an enamel user, but we are probably in a diminishing minority.
The biggest advantages of acrylics are their fast drying time (not that this is relevant unless you build models to a self impose timetable)) and their lack of smell. Lack of smell does NOT equate to lack of things which it is not a good idea to breathe in, in this respect they are not much better than enamels.
The biggest draw backs are the relative fragility of some, I often see complaints about masking lifting the paint, and their propensity to dry in and clog the airbrush nozzle. Many also require fairly accurate thinning and some also seem to prefer expensive brand thinners.
The advantages of enamels are the toughness of the finish, though SOME acrylics (there are different paint types lumped under the title 'acrylic') are getting close, and ease of use. Because of the longer drying time you will never see enamel users complaining about airbrush blockages, drying at the tip etc. Enamels are also MUCH more sympathetic to approximate thinning (if it looks about right it will spray well) and to what thinner is used. I've been using cheap white spirits with three or four different brands of enamel paints for years with no problem whatsoever.
The biggest draw backs are the smell, which is understandably a deal breaker for some, and the longer drying time, if that would bother you. I can't agree that the clean up is any messier than it is for acrylics, in fact I often found acrylics, probably because they had started to dry, a lot harder to get out of the brush and certainly not shiftable with water.
Humbrol enamels are still available and their quality, which fell to almost unusable a few years ago, has improved. It is impossible to give an exact thinning ratio as everyone's set up is different and the paints vary even within a brand. I would start paint heavy, 60/40 and go from there. Most enamels spray in the 60/40-40/60 range. I spray at a minimum of 35 psi. I don't know why many spray at much lower pressures.
Cheers
Steve
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is the link to the AS186 in John's shop, he gives a great service, it is bundled with a cheap airbrush, a Chinese knock off but I would get the a/b and just use it for basic jobs like varnishing and get a H&S as a main a/b. I started that way and I still use the hose that came with the bundle. My AS186 gave up the ghost after nearly 4 years of good use and sprang a leak. I debated whether to get another 186 or pay more for one a bit quieter that pumps air into the tank faster, I just decided on the latter. It was not essential to upgrade, after all £80 for a compressor that lasts nearly four years is good value. http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/airbrush-compressor-as-186-bundle.html
As for paints, as Steve says there is a lot of debate between acrylic and enamel. I am not a fan of enamel myself but there is some truth in Steve's comments about acrylic. I recommend using a good primer (Stynylrex) sprayed onto a clean surface (I clean with i.p.a.) and leave it for at least 24 hours before any masking. Acryilic paint and primer needs time to cure. Do that and you wont get any paint lifting problems with acrylic.
As for Vallejo, they are one of the more popular acrylic brands and are excellent. A link to them in John's shop:
http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/model-air.html
You will find that they do a lot of paint ranges, Model Colour for the hairy sticks plus specialist ranges for Gaming etc. Here is a link to their website:
http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/
I found the Humbrol acrylics to be of very poor quality when I returned to modelling about 4/5 years ago and was not keen to use enamels. I find acrylics easy to clean up with water and i.p.a. from an airbrush.
There are products like flow imrover to help stop needle tip drying.
There are lots of tutorial videos on YouTube on spraying but what I found of more use were the tutorials and other materials on Flory Models website. This is a paid for site at £3 per month with no lock-in. You could subscribe for just a month if you want and go through all their tutorials and other resources. I did so and chose to remain subscribed as they are a brilliant resource. here is a link: http://www.florymodels.co.uk/today/?SSLoginOk=true
Last edited by a moderator:
T
The Z'eer
Guest
I used aerosols back in the 80 s to paint some of my models. Pretty sure some were cellulose, the fumes never bothered me, though I wirked in a well ventilated area.
Are acrylic paints cheaper overall than enamel?
D
dubster72
Guest
There is no financial advantage in buying acrylics over enamels. In fact when you add certain products such as airbrush cleaner, flow enhancer it begins to be considerably more expensive to use acrylics over enamels.
I use enamels, thinned with white spirit which is cheap as chips.
However, if smell isn't a problem I would recommend you try either Tamiya acrylics or Mr Hobby Aqueous & thin either or both with cellulose thinner.
You'll avoid all the typical problems associated with using acrylics (clogging, tip dry etc) and get a beautifully smooth finish. You'll also not need to use primer because the use of the cellulose will mean the paint grips perfectly.
I use enamels, thinned with white spirit which is cheap as chips.
However, if smell isn't a problem I would recommend you try either Tamiya acrylics or Mr Hobby Aqueous & thin either or both with cellulose thinner.
You'll avoid all the typical problems associated with using acrylics (clogging, tip dry etc) and get a beautifully smooth finish. You'll also not need to use primer because the use of the cellulose will mean the paint grips perfectly.
I'm expecting a delivery of compressors next week, both the 186 and the 189 now come with a cooling fan on the back, I don't know how noisy they are, hopefully they will be quite.
