Robbe Dusseldorf ~ How true to scale

[bogstandard]

A few months ago I raided my 'Stash' and started to build the supposedley 'scale' model of the Dussedorf from the robbe kit, usual thing, trim hull, get running gear in etc.

Then I was surfing for any info on the boat and came across this site:-

http://www.flb2.de/

After a couple of hours rooting on this site my heart sank, my supposedly scale boat was nothing of the sort, twin Becker rudders instead of the 4 supplied, the rear crane was in the wrong place (and totally the wrong shape), fire monitors in the wrong place, three windows instead of five, and the list goes on.

I am now in the process of putting things right, modified Billings Becker rudders fitted (this allowed a scratch built crane to be fitted in the correct position), central monitor moved back by about 20mm, thruster fitted etc.

So beware of supposedly 'scale' models. As is the Dusseldorf is a stand off at about 50ft., don't be fooled by all the working features!!

If anyone is about to start building this boat or is in the process of, and needs more info just contact me.

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Remember to bear in mind though that many vessels undergo many modifications in thier lives.

A model may be more accurate for a given period than the picture you may have of it.

A classic is the QE2, she underwent many changes in her career and any model would have to be carefully researched before deciding at what period you wish to model her.

 

[bogstandard]

I checked through all the different stages of this boat, and what I have stated still stands.

A very good example is the deck centre section, on the Robbe plans it shows there are freeing ports, check out:- http://www.flb2.de/53701197490ea033d/53701197490ee8e57/index.html

It clearly shows that it never had any, in any of its different guises.

What I am trying to show is that some major manufacturers are taking 'artistic licence' a little too far.

I am by the way building my version as the 1975 one, before the centre section extension and fitting the forward crane.

 

[KenP]

I've built the Robbe "Happy Hunter". ( and sold it on ) Nice kit, nice finished model.

But... It is not a true scale Model.

Having said that, my understanding is that the Robbe kits do not purport to be true scale, only a nice model looking somewhat like the original. They have lots bits on them which are not to scale but they have ancillary kits to add lots of working devices.

So do you want lots of working stuff or a true scale model?

The choice is yours !!!

 

[Bunkerbarge]

I am sure you are correct in your evaluation of the model and, yes, manufacturers like Robbe take a degree of poetic license with thier kits.

I know the U-47 is not the most accurate kit but to get an accurate and working model you would be looking at 4 times the price. So it is a compromise and the benefit is the cost. I guess that Robbe at looking for ease of manufacture as a method of keeping the cost down so we have to remember this when making a decision to buy.

 

[mike_victoriabc]

Greetings - just tripped over this site. I purchased the kit about eighteen years ago, got as far as putting the deck down and wandered off watching my son play hockey, etc. Building a few tugs and decided it might be time to dust this one off! Looking forward to a few hints - I'm hooked as to drive units (Robbe gearbox types) and the four rudders. What props might be best, also what type water pump have you been happy with?

Regards,

Mike

 

[bogstandard]

Hi Mike,

If you follow this link it will help you a lot in building your Dusseldorf:-

http://www.flb2.de/

Go to the right side of the web page to Sontiges and open, then to Modellbau Galerie, the site is in german but all the pictures make up for it.

I have used the recommended motor/gearbox that robbe suggest, and fitted the special props supplied in the fittings kit. The water pump is a graupner one, same as the robbe one but cheaper.

Because the full size boat had only two becker rudders, I have fitted cut down versions from the graupner smit nederland, this allowed me to fit the crane where it is supposed to be, at the back not the side.

By the way, if you buy all the bits recommended by robbe (inc. radio) all the extra bits will cost you 3 to 4 times the cost of the original kit.

 

[adzam]

please be aware that the gear driven gearbox`s robbe recomend, however efficient, tend to err on the noisy side when operating.

i buily a robbe pt 15 with all the recomended ancillaries that robbe listed, only to be slightly disapponinted, not in the final product, but in the noise produced by the gearbox, which could of been eliminated with a slightly larger motor and direct drive,

just one to watch out for

Adz..

 

[mike_victoriabc]

I agree with the noise - I have them in other boats and always have someone coming up and telling me how noisy they are! I'd like to try the belt drives but not had the time to sort out what is needed.

 

[Phoenix]

please be aware that the gear driven gearbox`s robbe recomend, however efficient, tend to err on the noisy side when operating.i buily a robbe pt 15 with all the recomended ancillaries that robbe listed, only to be slightly disapponinted, not in the final product, but in the noise produced by the gearbox, which could of been eliminated with a slightly larger motor and direct drive,

just one to watch out for

Adz..

can you not strip it and shim the gears and replace bushes with bearing etc?

and use castrol lm grease in it might quieten things down a bit

 

[magpie]

I have one in a large grp boat and it's very noisy. I prefer belt drives or direct with the appropriate prop to suit the revs.

Jason

PS The Robbe U-47 as Richard mentioned is a great kit but not all that scale. The stern is round like an Austin 7 roadster and the real ones had a pointy stern like a canoe. They also left out the stern torp tube. Lots more too but it's still a great boat and looks real from a distance. I guess your build is alike.

 

[Bluewavestudios]

And having read the above...surely that is where the real Scale Modelling comes into play,

We can buy a semi-scale kit and with our relevant skills...make it true scale...Of course that does depend on the model in question and how well the kit manufacturer has made it in the first place. Some things are only minor changes and look much better when re-done. Major changes are a little harder if the subject is nothing like it is supposed to be....but in most cases can be sorted.

Still..that is the fun with this hobby and always nice to have a challenge to produce a nice looking model.

From the Pics of the models on here so far, I am sure the majority of us are capable of producing excellent results.

Poetic licence by kit manufacturers can always be resolved with our skills..if it keeps the costs to us down then that is great. Having said that, read any kit review in the model mags and see how many there are where the author of that review has done mods on that model during the building process...It happens all the time !!

And as Bunker rightly said above, some subjects do or did alter a lot during their lifetime hence all the variants of same aircraft/vehicle/vessel. ....Sometimes there were even variations between certain subjects of the same type.....just depended on which unit had that particular machine and where it was based.....That's where the nice subtle variations come in and keeps it interesting. A good example is the German Panzer Tank....Ok same standard tank from the factory but many variations on additional equipment/camouflage etc depending on what unit had it and it's particular theatre of war...the variations are numerous....all the additional stuff being done by the units when they were delivered...so that doesn't make any particular model less scale than the next one.

All this still goes on today too.

Just choose the period you want to do the model from and then base it on that...you will still end up with a scale model.

Good Luck !!!

Regards.......Mark.

 

[Rossica]

A few months ago I raided my 'Stash' and started to build the supposedley 'scale' model of the Dussedorf from the robbe kit, usual thing, trim hull, get running gear in etc.Then I was surfing for any info on the boat and came across this site:-

Feuerlöschboot Düsseldorf

After a couple of hours rooting on this site my heart sank, my supposedly scale boat was nothing of the sort, twin Becker rudders instead of the 4 supplied, the rear crane was in the wrong place (and totally the wrong shape), fire monitors in the wrong place, three windows instead of five, and the list goes on.

I am now in the process of putting things right, modified Billings Becker rudders fitted (this allowed a scratch built crane to be fitted in the correct position), central monitor moved back by about 20mm, thruster fitted etc.

So beware of supposedly 'scale' models. As is the Dusseldorf is a stand off at about 50ft., don't be fooled by all the working features!!

If anyone is about to start building this boat or is in the process of, and needs more info just contact me.

Hi, as a new boy, not sure if I'm replying in the right place, however am very interested in building a Dusseldorf as my next project and value any advice or pointers you can offer me.

Regards, Brian.

 

[bogstandard]

It is a long time since I posted that topic, and a lot has happened since.

My health deteriorated so much that I couldn't continue with model boats and sold the model when it was almost ready for paint (at a great financial loss), after I had brought it to a more scale like appearance.

Personally, if I wanted to do something again, I wouldn't touch any of the the German made model boat kits of this ilk if I wanted to build a scale model. They are so far out, I don't think most of them could be classed as stand off scale. Ones like fishing boats aren't too bad as scale models, and the one I built turned out rather well, but all the ones with bells and whistles on them will cost you a fortune for the extra bits that are needed. £500 to £600 for the radio to control all the functions, on top of all the fittings kits and special motors.

You would do much better going for a hull and plans and build it yourself or one of the very high quality kits that are produced in this country. You will end up with a much better quality of model and costing a lot less as well.

Bogs

 

[bogstandard]

I hope I didn't put you off to much and if you still want to go ahead, I have just raided my archive and found a few pics from my build. No comments but they should be self explanetary.

Bogs

 

[gregoryk9]

Thanks for sharing the pictures, but I was looking at the wooden decking around the monitor nozzels, Im prettry sure the planking supposed to be seperated, like your average "garden decking", to allow water to drain through.

Ive also upgraded my boat to 12v battery, which means you can use a normal 12v car screen wash pump at very little cost, as I was shocked to see the price of water pumps for model boats ! I bought a pump off ebay for only £4.00 UK graupner or robbe pumps are £14 + [uK]

a real rip off.

There are also some good german web sites which show a lot more super detailling including a stern guide vane which does help to reduce the wash produced by the twin screws when under more than half power and so stops too much water coming over the stern and risking seeping through the rudder access plate.

 

[bogstandard]

Thanks for sharing the pictures, but I was looking at the wooden decking around the monitor nozzels, Im prettry sure the planking supposed to be seperated, like your average "garden decking", to allow water to drain through. Ive also upgraded my boat to 12v battery, which means you can use a normal 12v car screen wash pump at very little cost, as I was shocked to see the price of water pumps for model boats ! I bought a pump off ebay for only £4.00 UK graupner or robbe pumps are £14 + [uK]

a real rip off.

There are also some good german web sites which show a lot more super detailling including a stern guide vane which does help to reduce the wash produced by the twin screws when under more than half power and so stops too much water coming over the stern and risking seeping through the rudder access plate.

If you look at the site I sent people to at the beginning of this topic, and look at the scale pics.

The water cannon floorboards that I have fitted do in fact have gaps between them and are very close to true scale, except that they needed to be painted a grey/black colour.

If you look very carefully at my hull, you will see it has the scale wash plate on the back, and one thing you can't see is the bow thruster.

These pictures were taken very early in the build, just after the deck was covered in scale chequer plate.

I modelled mine on the early vessel with the rotating blue flat panel 'flag' on the side of the wheelhouse (that was made to work as well), and can just be seen behind the stbd cowl vent (the cowls in the kit were the wrong size and shape and these were reshaped commercial ones).

I had to remake most of the main fittings, the mast was made from plasticard, and was hollow so that it could be fully lit, and the radar head was made up again to scale and rotated, the fittings you can see were all remade to scale size and shape.

The fire monitors on the superstructure were way off position for scale, so with great difficulty, the back end of the superstructure was reshaped to put them in the correct position and to get the steps at the back faired into the superstructure as required for scale effect. You can also see the towhook mount, that was fully working and made to scale. The one thing I didn't do as it would have meant making a complete new superstructure, were the windows, replacing the two missing ones was just a step too far.

There was not one area on the whole build that didn't need to have some sort of modification doing to it to get it almost scale like.

I am just getting my new computer up and running, and once I have got my archive transferred across, I will see if I have some more pictures of the build.

Bogs

 

[seguin]

A few months ago I raided my 'Stash' and started to build the supposedley 'scale' model of the Dussedorf from the robbe kit, usual thing, trim hull, get running gear in etc.Then I was surfing for any info on the boat and came across this site:-

Feuerlöschboot Düsseldorf

After a couple of hours rooting on this site my heart sank, my supposedly scale boat was nothing of the sort, twin Becker rudders instead of the 4 supplied, the rear crane was in the wrong place (and totally the wrong shape), fire monitors in the wrong place, three windows instead of five, and the list goes on.

I am now in the process of putting things right, modified Billings Becker rudders fitted (this allowed a scratch built crane to be fitted in the correct position), central monitor moved back by about 20mm, thruster fitted etc.

So beware of supposedly 'scale' models. As is the Dusseldorf is a stand off at about 50ft., don't be fooled by all the working features!!

If anyone is about to start building this boat or is in the process of, and needs more info just contact me.

Hello bogstandard

Just about to start building Dusseldorf.What motors did you install - were the prop shafts included in the fitting kit, if not which prop shafts and couplings did you use.

 

[bogstandard]

Seguin,

After the fiasco with the Robbe gearboxed ones, they were ripped out.

I am lucky in that I am a home machinist, so I made the shafts and couplings myself, coupled to a pair of powerful but low drain motors I had in my stash box.

Unfortunately, this model is now long gone, so I can't measure it up for you, plus of course, the old memory isn't as good as it used to be.

So I can't be of much help to you on that score.

Bogs

 

[ir3]

What deck anti skid plating did you use. Voyager makes several but I can not pinpoint the one that you used.

Thanks,

Iran Ausely