Yet another H&S vs. Iwata purchase thread...

[Jens Andrée]

I bought an H&S Ultra in the beginning of the summer and it's served me well. However, after a couple of mishaps with a trigger finger not 100% up to scratch I'm looking to upgrade.
I've only got a cheapo plastic compressor that came with the Ultra, but apart from not having a moisture trap it works well for now.
A better airbrush is more important to upgrade now I think and a better compressor when I can afford it. If I need more airflow than my puny compressor can muster I've got a dual tank big compressor in my workshop! It's just very noisy...

The question is H&S Evolution, Infinity or an Iwata of similar quality? If so which model?
I remember being recommended a Iwata here before but I can't find the post... sorry about that.

I want to have finer control over air pressure and paint flow that what my trigger finger can do repeatedly so that's a setting that's a must for the next airbrush.
I've got a 0.2 mm nozzle today and I think my next one is going to be bigger (0.4 mm?) since I only do large models.
The Ultra will probably be modified to spray primer and varnish afterwards with a bigger nozzle.

I'm the type of person that does a full clean after every use, and often between colours as well so it has to be as easy to take apart as the H&S I've got now.

What to choose as a primarily 1/35 scale modeller that is not a pro painter - but want to improve

Many thanks in advance!

Jens

 

[Mr Bowcat]

I can't advise on the Iwata, but after posting a similar thread on here several months ago I bought the H&S Evolution 2 in 1 and couldn't be happier with it.

It's easy to strip for cleaning with no tools, and although I mainly use the .4 needle, it's nice to have the .2 if I need it.

Hope it helps,

Bob

 

[Jens Andrée]

Cheers Bob!

What's the difference between Evolution Two and the Infinity, if any? (apart from the price and looks)
As long as I can set max pressure and paint flow I think I'm happy, and I love how simple the H&S airbrushes are too break down and clean!

 

[john i am]

I bought an H&S Ultra in the beginning of the summer and it's served me well. However, after a couple of mishaps with a trigger finger not 100% up to scratch I'm looking to upgrade.
I've only got a cheapo plastic compressor that came with the Ultra, but apart from not having a moisture trap it works well for now.
A better airbrush is more important to upgrade now I think and a better compressor when I can afford it. If I need more airflow than my puny compressor can muster I've got a dual tank big compressor in my workshop! It's just very noisy...

The question is H&S Evolution, Infinity or an Iwata of similar quality? If so which model?
I remember being recommended a Iwata here before but I can't find the post... sorry about that.

I want to have finer control over air pressure and paint flow that what my trigger finger can do repeatedly so that's a setting that's a must for the next airbrush.
I've got a 0.2 mm nozzle today and I think my next one is going to be bigger (0.4 mm?) since I only do large models.
The Ultra will probably be modified to spray primer and varnish afterwards with a bigger nozzle.

I'm the type of person that does a full clean after every use, and often between colours as well so it has to be as easy to take apart as the H&S I've got now.

What to choose as a primarily 1/35 scale modeller that is not a pro painter - but want to improve

Many thanks in advance!

Jens

Hi Jens I've being using my Iwata equipment for the last few years after getting back into modelling about 7 years ago. I went through the usual experience of cheaper compressors and airbrushes which was a painful experience for me personally.
I eventually purchased an Iwata smart jet pro along with a couple of airbrushes tr0 (finer detail) and a tr2 5 needle. I've been more than pleased with there performance and would recommend them to anyone and they come with a trigger grip.
Today after extensive research and many you tube videos I've decided to upgrade my set up as I myself want to spray bigger models. I toyed with the idea of a bambi budget silent oil tank compressor bb8 which had some very good reviews but in the end opted for the Iwata power jet plus with tubular tank frame and two pistons which will adequately power my choice in new airbrush being the Iwata hi-line kustom th with round and fan caps supplied. There is the Procon Boy equivalent at half the price which reportedly does the exact same thing which I may get at a later date. Other opinions and recommendations will become available but I can't emphasise enough that you do your own research to get what suits your own personal needs. Good luck and all the best. Happy painting/ modelling.
Kind regards John

 

[Tony]

I agree with the comments by John in the previous post that you will get many recommendations based on users experience but at the end of the day what suits one maybe will not suit another.

I am just getting back into my model building and would be "embarassed" to show you how many airbrush models i have "collected" based on recommendations.

What i would say is that on the whole the decent branded models are all good and its just what you as a user prefer.

I have just upgraded to the h&s infinity cr plus 2in1. Picked it up from a retail seller operating via ebay. I bought it with the .2 and .4 setup. Really nice finish in my view and especially like the preset they have fitted to limit trigger travel. Its a snap in snap out setting so can be turned on and off with ease without having to unscrew the setting.

Also liked to interchangable cups as spme brushes with a fixed large cup are a pain when trying to do close up as the cup gets in the eyeline.

My compressor is the revell master class which seems to be ideal for my own needs (ie i do not need anything that would power more than one airbrush at a time).

The one piece of advice i would offer is to look at the price and availability of spare parts as that can be an important consideration often overlooked.

Just for interest this is the ebay item number for the one i went for

292249367255

 

[Jens Andrée]

Thanks John for your detailed story on how you found your solution! I'm about to make your, and many others, journey and I'd prefer to not have to buy several different airbrushes before I'm happy. It's money I don't have to be honest and if I'm going to spend ~£200 on an airbrush it better be one I'm happy with.

Looking at the Iwata I've found three models that would suit me according to their descriptions and they are High Performance Plus C, Eclipse CS and HI_line CH.
However I'm very happy with my current "cheapo" H&S and how it's easy to disassemble so I'm currently in favour of that brand due to inexperience with everything else...

Before I wrote this question I was looking at the H&S Infinity CRplus Two 0.4 mm but only based on my gut feeling and my experience with my Ultra, and thanks Tony for your words on this model!
As long as I can limit the air flow and paint volume I think I'm going to be happy, but getting an airbrush that's going to last me a very long time is also important so I will spend a bit extra on quality for sure.

I think I'm going to consult youtube a bit later tonight when the kids have gone to bed in order to see the above mentioned airbrushes in action, specifically cleaning, and make some sort of decision on that.

Thank you!

 

[Jens Andrée]

After a lot of pondering, reading your thoughts, other posts in the forum, consulting youtube and some more pondering I've boiled it down to two models.
H&S Infinity CRplus 0.4 or Iwata Hi-Line CH (HP-CH).
The Iwata is almost double the price. For an extra £40-ish I get an extra nozzle and needle in a different size, which can be useful if you want to make some super-fine details, or you want to put thick primer on a large surface. The Iwata has a cunning screw for fine adjusting that takes care of this rather than swapping nozzle and needle according to a video I saw. (not changing the nozzle size but the amount of paint you can deposit)

I can't justify £350 for the Iwata right now and I probably can't afford the 2in1 H&S for £240-ish either, but I can perhaps scrape together £200 for aH&S Infinity CRplus 0.4 and buy a different nozzle/needle set at a later date - if I need it at all? I've still got my 0.2 Ultra and I think that nozzle and needle will fit the Infinity so perhaps a second set isn't needed at all?

The hobby store I'm buying all my modelling stuff from has got more or less the same prices as you find on eBay. In fact there seem to be very little difference in price regardless of where you buy it from.

As you know I've only got a puny Sparmax cheapest of the cheapest plastic compressor at the moment, but apart from getting very hot when doing long sessions, and not having a moisture trap, it works pretty well if you are reasonable. I've got a £800 big compressor as well, with adjustable pressure, that I can bring into the house if needed - but it's a noisy bugger...
I will buy a dedicated compressor for the airbrush at some stage but I feel the airbrush is a more important upgrade than the compressor.

You who have such a "proper" airbrush and know how to use it. Are you using the needle stop (or whatever the adjustable needle control is called) or is that something you only try a couple of times and then end up just using your finger instead to control both air and paint volume? If this is just a "novel" feature that you stop using pretty much right away then I might just as well keep my Ultra and be happy...

I wish I could test someone's Infinity and HP-CH to better understand what I'm talking about but I sadly don't know anyone here who's a modeller...

Is it the right thing to do to get a proper airbrush, for me, at this stage?

Many thanks in advance,
Jens

 

[Mr Bowcat]

I've never used the needle stop, air and paint both controlled with my fingertip. It takes some practice, but after a while muscle memory kicks in and now I don't even think about it.

 

[Tony]

A point of interest with the infinity is that the 0.15 and 0.2mm setup use the same aircap so to switch between these 2 setups you would only need to buy the needle and nozzle which makes this a cheaper option.

So if you go for the 2in1 option you can buy that as 0.15 and 0.4mm set or a 0.2 and 0.4mm setup meaning you only then have to add a further needle and nozzle to have the complete package.

 

[Jens Andrée]

I've never used the needle stop, air and paint both controlled with my fingertip. It takes some practice, but after a while muscle memory kicks in and now I don't even think about it.

So with that in mind I should really stick with my Ultra then and keep practice until I've developed said muscle memory?
Much cheaper than buying a new airbrush - but not as fun... hehe...

I'm sure there are other differences than just the needle stop, otherwise everybody would drive old Volvos and nobody would pay for premium cars. :D

I do see the benefit of having a needle stop when doing certain effects like spraying dots where they have to be the same size, or if you're spraying in a narrow place and you can't start spraying outside the model, but in the end of the day it's all down to experience I guess. By being careful and focused my H&S Ultra is actually capable of doing a good job, but it's very basic and the trigger is rather heavy.

Perhaps I should paint a couple more tanks and then make the decision to get a new airbrush. It does work like it is right now but I can see several benefits with having better control with a needle stop etc.

 

[Jens Andrée]

I bought an H&S Infinity CRplus (two in one, 0.15mm & 0.4mm) today so my search is over.

 

[colin m]

I bought an H&S Infinity CRplus (two in one, 0.15mm & 0.4mm) today so my search is over.

And so did I. I got the 0.2mm version as I'm keeping my previous H & S Evolution Silver line set up for 0.4mm. So, you tried it out yet ?

 

[Jens Andrée]

And so did I. I got the 0.2mm version as I'm keeping my previous H & S Evolution Silver line set up for 0.4mm. So, you tried it out yet ?

Not yet. I'm picking it up, and the compressor plus a few other bits and bobs, on Sunday at a modelling expo local-ish to me.
I felt it was safer to let the store owner to bring them with him rather than letting the postman having the chance of losing yet another package of mine...

I've already got a 0.2 mm nozzle and needle in my Ultra so 0.15 mm and 0.4 mm was the right choice for me.
I feel it's going to be a nice step up in quality for sure, both airbrush and compressor!

I assume you're please with yours?

 

[colin m]

I assume you're please with yours?

I am. Feels very nice, lots of handy useful controls. I was about to play with it right now, and the wife suggested the pub for dinner. Airbrush or beer ? 1 - 0 Beer.

 

[Jens Andrée]

Looking and feeling good for sure!


A wee bit more complicated than my Ultra though, but it feels good in the hand!
The big cup is in the way for my big hand though, but I'm sure I get used to it. This airbrush is going to be for detailed work and I'll use the Ultra for primer and base coat.

It came with three different tips and they're all different than the one on my Ultra. The needle is somewhat unprotected with the tip you see in the picture but I just have to be careful I guess...

The 0.4 mm tip and needle are going to be used in my Ultra instead of the 0.2 mm I've got there now, and then I'm covered for all types of spraying.

 

[BarryW]

I prefer that kind of tip myself. No-one is more clumsy than me and I have not had a problem with it!! With these tips you can clean off the needle point by 'pinching it' between your fingers with some kutchen towell. Thats particularly important when using water based acrylics when tip drying can be an issue.

 

[Jens Andrée]

I think you're right Barry because most airbrushes apart from entry level, or perhaps I should say "learner" level, have the needle open in one way or the other, and it must work since people are using this.
I just learned airbrushing with my Ultra and that's what I got used to, but I can see many benefits with this one!

The only thing that I don't like as a first impression is the "feel in the hand" compared to my Ultra. The infinity is a lot heavier. This was expected due to the various extra functions compared, but I understand why they've made an aluminium one, to cut weight.

I've got a real mancold today, fever and all, so perhaps it's not the best time to "review" this airbrush, but mechanically it looks and feels like clockwork! German engineering is great, even today when everything has to be cheaper and cheaper every year! And since Iwata now owns Harder & Steenbeck the debate Iwata vs. H&S is now solved once and for all! :p

 

[Jens Andrée]

In order to test the Infinity and the new compressor I wanted something with detail, or tiny parts, and I decided to build and paint the Revell Horten Go 229 1/72 kit that's going to sit next to my Haunebu II to give it some scale.
This is not the best aircraft kit to start with as a tank modeller because of many reasons, but a bit so-so fit and certain features lacking detail are some of them - but a challenge outside the comfort zone for sure!

I first played with the airbrush on paper for 3-4 minutes before I started priming the model with XF-69, and although my airbrush knowledge is limited - I know what quality tools feel like, and this certainly feels like quality!
I was able to paint consistent thin lines with accuracy and control. A shame that I can't paint straight lines because that'd be perfect, but I felt I was in total control after just a few minutes.

The only complaint I have is that the cap for the small cup doesn't fit properly. It's just a wee bit too wide to grip properly... This means that it falls off if I turn the airbrush to the side - not that you're supposed to do this, but still... Big enough movements and I think it might come off?! If yours are the same then it's by design but if not then please let me know and I'll get another cap.
The cap on the large cup has a better fit.

I should've bought this airbrush from the start instead of the Ultra I bought 4.5 months ago, but back then I had zero experience with airbrush and the Ultra sounded better than some cheapo eBay stuff.
I'm going to put the 0.4 mm needle & nozzle in the Ultra and use it for primer and for painting large areas so it's not going to be wasted money, but if you're thinking of buying an airbrush and you're going to use it a lot then buy the Infinity from the beginning av save the money on the cheaper one because you're going to upgrade soon anyway!
Also spending the extra money on a descent compressor made a huge difference. Even pressure and full control over pressure means better paint job, and the pump is only running when it needs to top up the tank so it's a lot quieter than with my previous non-tank compressor.

Another difference is that I've got zero overspray or splatter and to test this I didn't use my spray booth for the Horten Ho, I just used the box lid for a Tamiya kit. There was no black paint outside the spray area and that means that I can do details and similar smaller paint jobs with just some paper underneath and no spray booth! I'm using iso as thinner so it doesn't smell anyway.

I also tried to clean the airbrush with the patented Iwata back-flush method, which didn't work on the Ultra, but it does with the Infinity. Just a few drops of cellulose thinner on the last flush and it's as good as new!
I will still tear down the airbrush after a long session, but between colours I think I might start using this new method. Not because it's faster, but because it's simpler and less messy.

Well spent money if you ask me and if you're thinking about buying a new airbrush and the Infinity is on the shortlist you can't go wrong! Clean it properly and it'll easily last a lifetime.

 

[John Rixon]

Similar findings here! This airbrush genuinely gives you confidence, and behaves itself impeccably!

 

[PhilJ]

I was told once never to backlash and to be honest it has caused me problems in the past even on my Iwata. I have a H&S evolution and a Iwata HP-CH which I use for my gunze and Vallejo, the Iwata is just an incredible bit of kit for my 1/48 aircraft builds.
What I am getting shortly is the Neo TRN2 pistol trigger side feed, this will be used for priming and base coats only as it has a 0.5 needle any this will allow for a wider more even coat and and hopefully less blockages with my primer.
I think it's good to have a couple of airbrushes for dedicated work and should see your airbrushes perform better and more "full maintenance" free for longer.

Glad to see you new brush is working well it's a lovely bit of kit