H&S Ultra

Anybody got any views on this?

Looks like a real alternative to the Neo as a starter brush, but nobody seems to have mentioned it around here! Am trawling through a quagmire of conflicting information vis a vis airbrushes. I mostly intend to use one for priming and base coats of both paint and varnish, still want to hand brush any detail work, so really fine lines do not interest me!

H&S are superb airbrushes. I use the Evolution myself but the Ultra should do the job. Using model paints the 0.2 needle that comes with the standard Ultra can be a bit tricky for beginners and I would suggest getting a 0.4 needle instead as a good general purpose size and easier to use.

Fortunately the needle sets are interchangeable.

Also make sure it is the gravity feed but you may need a larger cup than in the standard boxing.

The 2 in 1 boxing offers both needle sizes and two cup sizes and is the better value buy.

Indeed, I think this looks like a bargain, one of my problems though, is that I have a strong instinct to go for a Badger 200 (I used to own 3 of these when a professional artist, and know them inside out). With the usage as described above, I suspect that a single action would be easier for me. The adjustment on these brushes is very easy to get used to, and they are really good for larger areas. However, I also know that there is a wealth of experience here, which is battling with my own instincts!

John I am sure others will back me on this. It is far better to get a double action for modelling purposes. Single action could be a false economy in my view. .

\ said:

John I am sure others will back me on this. It is far better to get a double action for modelling purposes. Single action could be a false economy in my view. .

Click to expand...

Yeah, you may well be right, I did get a couple of freebee dual actions with the compressor I bought, and I must admit, I didn't hate them as much as I thought I would, but I don't expect them to last too long! I don't think Ive seen anyone advocate the use of single action ABs here, but I have to say, the Badger 200 with a side cup on it is a VERY capable airbrush. Beautifully simple, well engineered and a total breeze to clean. It was capable of lines fine enough for pre-shading etc and with can cope with quite viscous acrylic! However, folks say H&S are nice and easy to strip down, and this price included both needle/nozzle sets AND both paint cups. I was really just curious why nobody had mentioned them in posts asking about entry level brushes - for my money, they look a lot better than the NEO for only 12 squid more!

\ said:

..However, folks say H&S are nice and easy to strip down,....

Click to expand...

I have a H & D (the CR Plus, 0.4 mm needle). Just to be sure, when changing the needle size, you need a new nozzle to match (at least that applies to H & D and probably other makes as the two need to match).

I can confirm that the H & D (mine at least) is very easy and quick to disassemble for cleaning. There is no tool to loosen or tighten the nozzle assembly, just finger tightness.

Well, I'm more than happy to bow to your collective wisdom , I will continue spraying my collection of plastic bottles until the dual action becomes second nature! The little compressor I bought is a gem

with 2 Chinese Airbrushes - £59! Last time I bought a compressor with a tank (in the '90s) it cost me £300!!!!

Thanks gentlemen, for your input.

Cheers

Another John!

funny enough one of these H&S ab's is on my short list for a new ab and i too was wondering if it was any good (especially as i no longer rate iwata neos)

I agree with Barry about the greater flexibility a double action gives over a single action. I wouldn't fancy attempting some of the more complicated Luftwaffe mottles &c without one!

I have found by experience that gravity feed brushes tend to be more economical on paint use than syphon/side feed brushes.

Paul, I wondered what issues you were having with your NEO,that would put you off? I've never used one but I do have and use several other Iwata brushes and have found them to be both well made and reliable. The same can be said for other brands of course, including H&S.

Cheers

Steve

Experienced both H & S and Iwata.

My experience is and there is more but I will keep it simple John. No disrespect to you. :rolleyes:

H & S. For Priming and varnish. Assume we are talking acrylic as I have no experience in enamels.They are both dirty paints and the worst to clean up.

The Evolution is a very nice brush. It breaks down into 6 parts very easily. The nozzle is easy to clean. No spanners are required. For Priming and Varnishing a .4 needle/nozzle

There are also available .0.15, 0.2, .04 and 0.6 needle nozzle alternatives for the same brush.

It is a high performer yet a simple brush. Needles are sold separate from the nozzles. Every part on an H And S brush is replaceable. The cup is removable. There are two sizes of cup available.

The Evolution can be taken apart with the fingers

For closer and intricate work Iwata is better.

Breakdown an Evolution clean all parts put together my record is 4 minutes and that is a clogged up one.

Iwata. For priming and varnish not so good. They will do both these things but I find you need to take the whole brush apart to clean.

OK this is the same as the H & S. However the Iwatas are somewhat better engineered but to take them apart is an absolute pain. A real pain compared to the H & S.

The nozzles are minute and difficult to clean. Most Iwata have matched needle nozzles so a replacement is the whole lot. The body is not replaceable as the Iwata.

Cup are moulded into the main body one size only.

They are more intricate and touchy and not as friendly as an H & S.

But for all top coats and larger detail work I use an Iwata Eclipse HP BS. with a .35 needle/nozzle no alternative sizes.

It is small in length and light with a small low cup which helps when airbrushing especially to get into difficult parts.

It produces a slightly finer paint finish than an H & S.

Breakdown an Iwata and clean a load of bother.

An Iwata HP BH I use for close detailed work and this is available in .2 and a .18.. Still learning.

Spanners are needed to very carefully remove and replace the nozzle.

Those are comparisons but to be remembered that both are great brushes and the differences are close. Please remember this is my personal opinion not one taken from other blurb.

Laurie

Noted your thoughts on Badger.

I have not seen many on the UK scene. i would make sure you find that you can get spares easily John.

Both Iwata and H & S ordered one day will mostly likely be on your door step the next.

Laurie

\ said:

Cup are moulded into the main body one size only.

Click to expand...

Just a small correction as the Neo was mentioned in the opening post the cup on the Neo is a screw thread and it comes with a large and a small cup.

\ said:

Most Iwata have matched needle nozzles so a replacement is the whole lot. Laurie

Click to expand...

Just to clarify the Iwata brushes generally only fit one size of nozzle/needle. That means you can't fit a 0.5mm nozzle and needle to a brush made for a 0.35mm assembly, unlike some of the H&S brushes which do allow this sort of option. However, with Iwatas, you can replace either the needle or the nozzle with one of the correct size.

I very rarely replace a nozzle but I have replaced a few needles when they have got bent or hooked beyond my ability to repair them!

Cheers

Steve

\ said:

Just a small correction as the Neo was mentioned in the opening post the cup on the Neo is a screw thread and it comes with a large and a small cup.

Click to expand...

Actually Dave the Neo is not an Iwata pedigree made airbrush. It is made for Iwata by outside sources and branded Iwata. Think that is probably why they have two cups.

All of the Iwata made airbrushes have the cup moulded into the body. H & S are sensible as the cups can be removed easily which makes cleaning so much easier. With the Iwata it is difficult to remove semi dry paint and keep bits of paint falling to the bottom of the cup.

Laurie

\ said:

Paul, I wondered what issues you were having with your NEO,that would put you off? I've never used one but I do have and use several other Iwata brushes and have found them to be both well made and reliable. The same can be said for other brands of course, including H&S.

Cheers

Steve

Click to expand...

its not a proper iwata.....its made FOR them, not BY them

i had intermittant problems including the offset spray pattern which is a known defect.....after speaking to the guy who owns little-cars at a show he told me its turned into quite a problem for iwata...ive googled it and it seems to be true........eventually it just 'died', i know what it is but the spare parts come to nearly the cost of a new one!

if i could afford it id seriously consider an Aztek simply cos it a totally different design, but ive seen quite a few of the h&s ab in online shops at a resonable price so thinking about trying one of them when i can afford it

Thanks for the explanation Paul. It sounds like you'll be saving up for something else then

I only ever had my hands on an H+S brush once. It was the one with the different size options and in the limited time I had it certainly seemed a very nice and well made brush.

Cheers

Steve

I have the ultra and infinity, both brushes are excellent for any modeller and are very forgiving, easy to clean and hassle free. I have a neo as well but that it is no relegated to just varnish. Hate cleaning this.

Over the years I have used many Ab but to me the H&S brushes are some of the best, iwata have the micron range which cost a arm and a leg £300 + and have been compared to the infinity in quality, so I would start slow and As you go along you may find a preference for a certain brand. I still use my cheap Chinese brushes for metallics and they do the job fine and sometimes I use these all day long with no issues.

\ said:

Just to clarify the Iwata brushes generally only fit one size of nozzle/needle. That means you can't fit a 0.5mm nozzle and needle to a brush made for a 0.35mm assembly, unlike some of the H&S brushes which do allow this sort of option. However, with Iwatas, you can replace either the needle or the nozzle with one of the correct size.I very rarely replace a nozzle but I have replaced a few needles when they have got bent or hooked beyond my ability to repair them!

Cheers

Steve

Click to expand...

Actually to calrify a clarify. Many of the Iwata brushes have alternatives. For instance the brushes I have the HP BH has a .2 needle/nozzle but a .3 is an optional extra. The HP BS has a .35 but can take a .5.

Laurie

\ said:

I have the ultra and infinity, both brushes are excellent for any modeller and are very forgiving, easy to clean and hassle free. I have a neo as well but that it is no relegated to just varnish. Hate cleaning this.Over the years I have used many Ab but to me the H&S brushes are some of the best, iwata have the micron range which cost a arm and a leg £300 + and have been compared to the infinity in quality, so I would start slow and As you go along you may find a preference for a certain brand. I still use my cheap Chinese brushes for metallics and they do the job fine and sometimes I use these all day long with no issues.

Click to expand...

Ah, interesting. So how would you compare the two (H&S) in quality of build? You see, I'm wondering if the ultra has the same nozzles as the more expensive models? It would strike me as an unusual production decision to make two or three nozzles of the same size - the only difference being, say, fineness of tolerance, if you see what I mean? I know that I want a .4 nozzle for primers, base coats and varnishes, and I suspect that nozzle will get by far the most use. So, is it worth spending £118 on an Evolution 2 in 1, or stick with the Ultra at £75 which also has two nozzles, that appear to be the same size?

\ said:

Ah, interesting. So how would you compare the two (H&S) in quality of build? You see, I'm wondering if the ultra has the same nozzles as the more expensive models? It would strike me as an unusual production decision to make two or three nozzles of the same size - the only difference being, say, fineness of tolerance, if you see what I mean? I know that I want a .4 nozzle for primers, base coats and varnishes, and I suspect that nozzle will get by far the most use. So, is it worth spending £118 on an Evolution 2 in 1, or stick with the Ultra at £75 which also has two nozzles, that appear to be the same size?

Click to expand...

John me thinks though makest to much of the differences. It is doubtful if any one has tried the Ultra and the Evolution to give you your answer.

The Ultra and the Evolution have different nozzles. So I think that on the basis that as H & S are a quality producing concern that there is a difference in quality between the Ultra and the Evolution. So in the end it depends on what you want to pay and if you feel that is affordable for what you want to do with it. Actually the Evolution has the ability to take 4 nozzle sizes, .18 .2 .4 and .6.

Although you only want it at the moment for primer and varnish I think that once you have tried an airbrush you will be hooked. Not only for top coat work which, what any body says, an airbrush will win hands down compared to hand brushing. A paint film from an airbrush is minute in thickness following but not filling panel and intricate detail on the plastic. Handbrushing is not going to achieve that.

On top of all that is the weathering and distressing of models to produce, as well as possible, and to emulate the aircraft or military vehicle as it is in the the raw. For that you need a good airbrush.

What ever you buy they are wanted good second hand airbrushes. So little is lost that is on H&S and Iwata airbrushes if you wanted to upgrade from the utility model of the pack.

Laurie