After 20 yrs, coming back... so maybe a lil help? :P

[tagarnav]

Hi guys, I've been out for 20yrs doing this, and I can see that there's a lot of techniques and practices to acchieve an amazing finishing. I'll be focusing on aircrafts now, 1/48, starting with WWII and later moving to modern ones. I'd love to get some advices and specially when it comes to tools, brands, etc.
Here's what I've seen so far in terms of practices, it may vary depending on the modeler, but in general lines goes like this:

Work on the cockpit, painting and adding details, then start assembling the fusselage and outside, adding putty and sanding to fix seams, re-adding panel details with small saws or a tool to mark panels, then masking interiors or holes like landing gear, and applying a primer coat. Then depending on artist, doing a pre-shade, or start with black primer and work from there. After that, doing color, sometimes a little shading for panels or highlights, then applying a clear coat, then decals with a solution to settle them, then another clear coat, and work on weathering, this could require panel line wash, working with oils, pastels, and other techniques. After all that, assemble other parts (could differ) and apply a final clear coat again.

So my question for this is basically are basically these:
- When you apply clear coats after base color, is it a shiny coat? (that's what I've seen all the time) and after applying the decals, is it same glossy coat? And final clear coat is matte? or semi matte?
- For settling decals, you use a settler, and then a softer on top?
- I've seen modelers use alcohol for airbrush paiting? I've always use thinner, how does that work? Is it also thinner based paints for that?

And here's what I don't know what to get and need help with if you guys can suggest me brands and types so I can buy:
- Types of glue? I've seen something like Tamiya Thin Cement which is like a brush type tip, and then I've seen anotherone that has a long tip, more precise
- Putty for sealing gaps and fixing errors
- Thinners and at least an array of 10 or 15 colors to start that I can use and mix to paint most of aircrafts (WWII fighters to start)
- Oil paints brands? for weathering and doing a base paneling marking weathering.
- Pastel for dusty and weathering? I've seen like crayons that are used for this.
- Airbrush and compressor? I had the Iwata Eclipse Hp-Cs in mind
- And anything else you guys think I'll be needing

I know it's a lot, sorry for that, but my idea is to get a cheap kit that has enough detail (maybe this) , so I can start practicing and getting used to it again, after 20 yrs I'm so outdated, and the most I did was painting with airbrush, but it wasn't anything too crazy.
I'll be testing mostly painting, masking, weathering techniques and adding details, and overall pipeline from start to finish. And for this I'd like to have at least most of the tools so I can go to town re-intruducing myself again to the hobby, learn and do all mistakes in those test kits so I can then move into actually starting my collection :P

Thanks guys, sorry for it been so long!

 

[Dave Ward]

Leo,
OK, here's my two penneth of advice.
Paint - Enamel ( oil based ) or acrylic ( water based ). I used to use enamels, but moved to acrylics, as they are quicker, easy to thin, and don't smell! I use Vallejo, but also AK interactive, Hataka & MiG. Having said that enamels can be easier to layer - for example when doing faces.
Adhesive - I use Tamiya Extra Thin, but I also use Revell Contacta - it has a metal hypodermic style tube for accurate placement ( it doesn't dry as fast as TET, but gives a little wiggle time ). Super glues can be useful, but don't bother with any specialist stuff to begin with.
Filler - Milliput ( 2 part ). Green Stuff, and Perfect Plastic Putty. The last is my go-to brand.
Emery paper - wet & dry paper in various grades, to extra fine, for smoothing surfaces.
Side cutters, for removing bits from sprues ( nail cutters will do, for small pieces ).
Sharp Craft knife - I use Swann Morton 10A Scalpel blades & handle, but that's just me.
Finishes - the varnishes are applied to seal the surface. If you're going to apply decals, then gloss helps the adhesion, and panel line washes run better over gloss. Again sealing in with varnish, then weathering over the top - the varnish means you can wipe off any excess/mistaken bits. Final coat can be gloss/satin/matt as required.
Weathering, I've used artists soft pastels, but you can get ready made stuff.
Brushes, use the best you can get hold of ( artists shops! ), and take care of them. ( one of my failings! ).
I would wait to see about the airbrush/compressor, it's a big investment to make initially. Incidentally that's why I moved to acrylics - I live in a flat, and you can spray acrylics without any long-lasting odour!
Dave

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Leo
I concur with Dave on most of what he’s said. Where I differ is as follows.
Paint, I use Tamiya to spray, usin Mr colour thinners. Brush paint (detail work) I use Vallejo. I have extensive collection of enamels, but only use the metallics these days, though they can be useful for dry brushing.
For spraying you will need a spray booth and mask, so budget for them...
Oils, I use Windsor and Newton student grade.
Filler, I use David’s, but also use Tamiya as I find it stands better than acrylic based filler.
Sharp knife, I use Swann Morton as well, but use number 15 ( best for general clean up I find) and number 11 blades . I have a handle for each.
Aircraft I always finish with semi matt varnish, tanks always matt varnish.
Brushes, I use Windsor and Newton or Rosemary.
I have an Iwatta eclipse side feed and Iwatta compressor, both excellent tools.
Cheers
Tim

 

[Jakko]

So my question for this is basically are basically these:
- When you apply clear coats after base color, is it a shiny coat? (that's what I've seen all the time) and after applying the decals, is it same glossy coat? And final clear coat is matte? or semi matte?

I don’t build many aircraft, and when I do I don’t usually apply any clear coat except possibly at the very end, but it’s pretty much guaranteed that any clear coat before transfers (decals) will be gloss. Transfers adhere better to a gloss finish than to a matt one (though it depends a lot on the brand of transfer as well), and gloss will prevent any silvering of the transfer as well.

- For settling decals, you use a settler, and then a softer on top?

I almost invariably use Micro Set and Sol, though TBH Set doesn’t actually seems to do much Micro Sol, however, I wouldn’t want to do without for any decal to be applied on a curved surface or over detail.

- I've seen modelers use alcohol for airbrush paiting? I've always use thinner, how does that work? Is it also thinner based paints for that?

Acrylic paint is either water- or alcohol-based; since either of those will dissolve in the other, you can normally use either of them to thin these paints. Tamiya acrylics (not enamels!) for example are alcohol-based, but thin easily with either water or alcohol — so far I’ve tried isopropanol (windscreen wiper fluid from Halfords — I think I paid €2 for a litre vs. €7.95 for 250 ml of Tamiya thinner which contains much the same) and methanol, and both work well (though methanol dissolves dried acrylic paint, so it’s a bad idea to use it for washes).

- Types of glue? I've seen something like Tamiya Thin Cement which is like a brush type tip, and then I've seen anotherone that has a long tip, more precise

Buy some different types and see which one you like best. I myself don’t use model cement at all, but a degreaser/glue thinner that contains a fair amount of MEK (methyl-ethyl-ketone), largely because I can buy it in DIY stores here in the Netherlands at about the same price for 250 ml as I would pay for a bottle of liquid model cement in a model shop

- Putty for sealing gaps and fixing errors

I quite like Revell Plasto (which comes in a tube), but since the last model shop in my immediate area closed, I’ve been using car body filler (also in a tube) from a DIY store and find it works fine as well. I don’t really see a need for two-part epoxy putty for filling gaps on models, but if you do, then I strongly suggest buying pretty much anything else than Milliput. It may have been the bee’s knees in the 1970s when there wasn’t anything else, but compared to most other brands I’ve tried, it’s just junk.

- Thinners and at least an array of 10 or 15 colors to start that I can use and mix to paint most of aircrafts (WWII fighters to start)

What did you use before? Enamels or acrylics? Most model paint ranges these days are acrylics, but some enamel brands are still to be had. I’ve got a good selection of both, but generally use acrylics because I find them easier to work with for most purposes. Enamels are on average better for drybrushing, I’d say, though that also depends on which brand of acrylics (or even which specific colour of a specific brand) you compare them with. Which colours to buy really depends on what you intend to paint. You can’t go wrong with some basic colours like white, black and medium grey, but other than that, if you intend to build British aircraft you’re going to need a whole different range of colours than if you want to build Japanese ones, for example.

- Oil paints brands? for weathering and doing a base paneling marking weathering.
- Pastel for dusty and weathering? I've seen like crayons that are used for this.

I can’t really help there, as I don’t use either myself.

- And anything else you guys think I'll be needing

A good knife. There’s nothing more important to have than that in this hobby. I prefer the X-Acto style:

With a couple of different blade shapes (triangular like here for general work, rounded is useful for scraping under some circumstances, and a chisel blade to remove detail).

this one

Semi-OT, but may I suggest you don’t custom-colour the links in your message? They’ll be easier to recognise without that little touch

my idea is to get a cheap kit that has enough detail (maybe this) , so I can start practicing and getting used to it again, after 20 yrs I'm so outdated, and the most I did was painting with airbrush, but it wasn't anything too crazy.

A sentiment often repeated here is that it’s your model, so what counts is that you’re happy with the way it turns out.

 

[Dave Ward]

As far as paint goes, you can get various sets - just a few minutes on Amazon, and you can find these: I used ' Luftwaffe Sets ' in Toys & Games section:
Amazon ( at least in the UK/Europe ) is a good basis for searches - not just for Luftwaffe, but for may Air Forces
Dave

 

[tagarnav]

Wow that's allot of information, thanks guys! That helps allot! I'll check locally if I can get most of these in some shops, amazon takes like 1 month or so, but since I'm still planning on moving I may actually order everything so I can start right away once moving.

One remaining question, is there a noticeable difference in terms of finish, and advantages of each ones? (I do remember that my pain looked very grainy by the end, but again, I was very amateur :P)

What did you use before? Enamels or acrylics? Most model paint ranges these days are acrylics, but some enamel brands are still to be had. I’ve got a good selection of both, but generally use acrylics because I find them easier to work with for most purposes. Enamels are on average better for drybrushing, I’d say, though that also depends on which brand of acrylics (or even which specific colour of a specific brand) you compare them with. Which colours to buy really depends on what you intend to paint. You can’t go wrong with some basic colours like white, black and medium grey, but other than that, if you intend to build British aircraft you’re going to need a whole different range of colours than if you want to build Japanese ones, for example.

I remember using enamels, pretty much like these ones below. I had no idea that acrylics could be used for modelling.

Semi-OT, but may I suggest you don’t custom-colour the links in your message? They’ll be easier to recognise without that little touch

Also Jakko, do you think that's too much? (also fixed the links to basic format :P)

As far as paint goes, you can get various sets - just a few minutes on Amazon, and you can find these: I used ' Luftwaffe Sets ' in Toys & Games section:

Great Dave! That's pretty much what I was looking for to get started! Thanks a bunch! I guess I'll have to add basic colors like red, yelllow, whites, etc. And about that, here's another question, should I stick to acrylics when it comes to chromes and silver or metallic colors?

Thanks for all of your really helpful responses guys! This really helps and makes me really exited about going back to this! I wish I had all of this 20 yrs ago :P

 

[Dave Ward]

Leo,
basics - red,blue. yellow, white, black, rust, silver, gunmetal & grey black ( for tyres! ).
The latest acrylic metallics are very good, brush applied for small areas - but for overall metallic finishes, the airbrush is essential, just for smooth application. If you'll forgive me, I'll add a picture to show an acrylic paint finish.
This is the wing off a 1/48 Henschel Hs 126 - splinter camo - Condor Legion. All acrylic paints ( AK Interactive Luftwaffe pre-war set ), sprayed, and masked using Tamiya masking film. The paints were applied over an acrylic primer ( a neutral grey ), from light to dark.
Dave

 

[Jakko]

One remaining question, is there a noticeable difference in terms of finish, and advantages of each ones? (I do remember that my pain looked very grainy by the end, but again, I was very amateur :P)

Between brush-painting and airbrushing, you mean? Airbrushing will be smoother and thinner, but if you use a fine one, also harder to get it into all the nooks and crannies of a model — though this is much less of a concern with aircraft than with, say, tanks.

I remember using enamels, pretty much like these ones below. I had no idea that acrylics could be used for modelling.

They have been since the 1980s at least However, in the UK especially Humbrol enamels clung on for much longer than in many other parts of the world. What I like to do is buy one or two bottles/tins/whatever of any paint brand I come across that I haven’t used before, just so I can see if it’s any good. There’s little harm in trying that yourself: if you’re not sure whether you want the familiar enamels or newfangled acrylics, just buy one or two of the latter and try them out a bit. On the other hand, if you’re restarting from scratch, it may also be a good idea to skip the enamels and go for acrylics right away. Your choice, really

Also Jakko, do you think that's too much?

I’m not sure I understand the question. The reason I mentioned it is because if links in your message look different from other links on the site, people may not realise what they are because they (subconsciously) expect them to look like this.

should I stick to acrylics when it comes to chromes and silver or metallic colors?

My experience is that enamels are often better for metallic colours, but many acrylics are easily good enough too. There are some that are almost impossible to paint with, though — I’ve seen very few yellow metal acrylics that actually cover, for example, and Tamiya’s are probably worst of all. Their white metals, though, cover well enough.

 

[tagarnav]

Leo,
basics - red,blue. yellow, white, black, rust, silver, gunmetal & grey black ( for tyres! ).
The latest acrylic metallics are very good, brush applied for small areas - but for overall metallic finishes, the airbrush is essential, just for smooth application. If you'll forgive me, I'll add a picture to show an acrylic paint finish.View attachment 314888
This is the wing off a 1/48 Henschel Hs 126 - splinter camo - Condor Legion. All acrylic paints ( AK Interactive Luftwaffe pre-war set ), sprayed, and masked using Tamiya masking film. The paints were applied over an acrylic primer ( a neutral grey ), from light to dark.
Dave

Nice! That looks really good! Thanks for that Dave, I think I'll get acrylics for most of the colors, and stick to enamels for metallics, at least do a few tests like that :D

I’m not sure I understand the question. The reason I mentioned it is because if links in your message look different from other links on the site, people may not realise what they are because they (subconsciously) expect them to look like this.

Hey Jakko, I was referring to the airbrush actually, if it was good or not :P

 

[BarryW]

Hi Leo
You seem to be getting plenty of sound suggestions and advice. I would just like to expand with a few more suggestions:

Airbrush paint
Enamels and water based acrylics have been mentioned but there are also laquer based acrylics. These tend to be less prone to tip-drying and lay down better than the water based paint. There is one downside to these, they smell. Ideally you need a spray booth venting to the outside with these. They are not good to use without but if you have such a set up these are the very best paints that you can use. There are two brands to consider:
Gunze Mr Color (not their Aqueous) - these come in 10ml pots and need thinning with Mr Levelling Thinner
MRP, these are airbrush ready coming in 30ml pots. No thinning needed but Mr Levelling Thinner work well with it.
Those of us who use the MRP laquer based paints really swear by them as the best you can get.

Cement
I agree that Tamiya Extra Thin is excellent. Mr S Cement is similar but having used both I would say is better. These cements are applied by using capillary action, hold parts together and apply a brush of cement to the join. Quick bonding these are excellent. I do over 90% of my gluing with these. Sometimes you will get small parts that need cementing with something that does not dry and evaporate so quick by applying the cement to a part before joining - there are plenty of types for that such as Mr Cement Delux and Revell Contacta.

Filler
I use three types each of which has a role.
Vallejo Plastic Putty - dries fast and a little gritty in texture. I use this for larger gaps (not too large)
Mr Surfacer 500 - a good general putty applied with a disposable brush, good for smaller gaps.
Mr Dissolved Putty - I love this stuff. Not good for most gaps but it is very self-levelling and is fine enough to get into fine hairline cracks. If you get a gluey finger mark on a model (yes we all do it!!) you sand the area affected and apply a little of this, a bit of a sanding when dry and you wont know anything was wrong under a coat of paint. It has various specific uses where you need something very thin that leaves a level flat surface.

Painting and weathering
This is a big subject and I recommend lots of experimenting tpo see what suits you. I did a thread on this forum on the subject before I switched to MRP paints and, ever evolving, some of my methodology has changed since but it might still be a lot of help and gives a good basic painting and weathering tutorial. http://www.scale-models.co.uk/threads/how-to-paint-and-weather-an-aircraft-model.20020/

 

[tagarnav]

Hi Leo
You seem to be getting plenty of sound suggestions and advice. I would just like to expand with a few more suggestions:

Wow, thanks Barry, that's helpful. I've been watching tons of vids, more specifically from Will Pattison, David Damek, and another channel called Scale-A-Ton. The instructive ones from Will are very advance, but there's very nice tips in there, just hard when it comes to specific brands, tools or things like that.
For fillers I saw that they sometimes dissolve pieces of plastic inside the Tamiya Extra Thin bottle, and use that as it's plastic, can be sanded better and it won't poke any holes when rescribing panels and such.

About paints, that's good to know as well, I'll check those out too! Thanks!