Enamel or Acrylic, what is your paint of choice?

[Laurie]

I really do not mind who uses what Ken as it does not effect me but to put in perspective acrylics.


This is not knocking enamels this just a representation of acrylic water soluble paint.


Water based acrylics can be overcoated within an hour. I have used just air from an airbrush and


dried and then overcoated within 15 mins. With the new acrylics primer you can use acrylics within


about 15 mins over the top. To cure for varnishes etc 24 hours.


Watersoluble acrylics you can use any one manufacturers thinner for any of the other acrylic


manufacturer's paint. Not recommended by me but some use water as a thinner.


Cleaners. I use mainly water to clean my airbrush with just a cup of cleaner at the end.


99% of water soluble acrylics are non toxic. A few yellows are not.


There is virtually no smell from any of the water soluble acrylic paints. Vallejo airbrush cleaner


has a very slight smell.


Acrylics do not give me a headache. When I tried enamels I had one every session. That


may of course be just me susceptible (I had to use a comparison here which I have avoided


elsewhere)


Vallejo, as an instance, have a colour choice in acrylics of approx 300 colours plus a variety of varnishes.


Lifecolor approx 250.


Laurie

 

[Laurie]

Whoops missed a few point raised by Ken.


Flow Enhancer. Helps with effects. Using a .2 needle/nozzle I can airbrush at 8PSI.


This gives incredible control over the flow of paint. Gives the ability to build slowly effects.


50% Flow Enhancer 50% paint.


Fragility of acrylics. When cured I have not found it fragile. On the large 1/48 Merlin I had


a couple of knocked corners that was it. As an instance acrylics are the very devil to remove


if something has gone wrong.. It is important to use primer on a properly prepared surface.


Effects with acrylics. Mentioned somewhere Jimenez acrylic techniques and what you can do


with acrylics which is certainly more than I will ever want.


Just to reiterate. I am not pitting this against enamels. Only giving what acrylics is capable


off and its characteristics.


As Tony has said what is best Bacon or Sausage. The only way is to try them.


Laurie

 

[dubster72]

I quite agree Laurie! Try both types & see which one suits.


But I do take slight umbrage with a couple of your points ....


Acrylic paint is much more ' fragile ' than enamel. That's why people use to on smaller parts, rather than going to all the hassle of bird-gritting & priming those little parts.


Another example of enamel paint being more robust is its usage in other areas - radiators, bathtubs, camping mugs & plates ...


Secondly, I think you're being somewhat disingenuous about mixing & matching paint brands with other thinners. I know that a quick search would reveal you yourself extolling the virtues of using same brand thinner


The curious thing to me is that perhaps the belief that enamels smell hideously is becoming something of an accepted fact without actual knowledge?


As you know, I use enamels almost exclusively & often with cellulose thinners. I wear a face mask & my homemade spray booth has a particulate filter for paint particles as well as an active charcoal filter for odours - it works so well that no visitor ever remarks upon any smell, even if they come round during a session.


Personally I think the mask & booth combination is essential. Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.

 

[Laurie]

Another example of enamel paint being more robust is its usage in other areas - radiators, bathtubs, camping mugs & plates ...

But I do not paint these kind of things Patrick. I find planes and military vehicles much more rewarding. You should try it. Mugs and plates :rolleyes:


As said Patrick mix and match thinners in water soluble paints as I have proved it works. OK.

The curious thing to me is that perhaps the belief that enamels smell hideously is becoming something of an accepted fact without actual knowledge?

It does. Said with knowledge and conviction. :D

As you know, I use enamels almost exclusively & often with cellulose thinners. I wear a face mask & my homemade spray booth has a particulate filter for paint particles as well as an active charcoal filter for odours - it works so well that no visitor ever remarks upon any smell, even if they come round during a session.

Jolly good.


"accepted fact without actual knowledge". Have been this week painting my eldest son's garage doors as he has physical difficulties. We used a cellulose based special paint for Fibreglass. Had a headache during painting and felt sick after cleaning the brushes in cellulose. Dreadful stuff. Having been in charge in my architectural life of the installation industrial paint booths I know how it is best to avoid cellulose. Air washing and goodness knows what.


Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.If you care to look on the Vallejo site you will find certificates for ALL the paints and ALL the colours they produce giving details. Their paints have been submitted to National bodies to test and give results of their findings. These are freely available on the Vallejo site. There are a number of yellows which are toxic and this knowledge is printed on those bottles as a warning. Pleased to say that all Model Air, including the yellows, are non toxic. I still use a vent system when airbrushing.


Matter of interest do the enamel manufacturers provide this service. ?


Hope that helps Patrick.


Laurie

 

[dubster72]

But I do not paint these kind of things Patrick. I find planes and military vehicles much more rewarding. You should try it. Mugs and plates :rolleyes:


As said Patrick mix and match thinners in water soluble paints as I have proved it works. OK.


It does. Said with knowledge and conviction. :D


Jolly good.


"accepted fact without actual knowledge". Have been this week painting my eldest son's garage doors as he has physical difficulties. We used a cellulose based special paint for Fibreglass. Had a headache during painting and felt sick after cleaning the brushes in cellulose. Dreadful stuff. Having been in charge in my architectural life of the installation industrial paint booths I know how it is best to avoid cellulose. Air washing and goodness knows what.


Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.If you care to look on the Vallejo site you will find certificates for ALL the paints and ALL the colours they produce giving details. Their paints have been submitted to National bodies to test and give results of their findings. These are freely available on the Vallejo site. There are a number of yellows which are toxic and this knowledge is printed on those bottles as a warning. Pleased to say that all Model Air, including the yellows, are non toxic. I still use a vent system when airbrushing.


Matter of interest do the enamel manufacturers provide this service. ?


Hope that helps Patrick.


Laurie

Laurie, you could give lessons in being patronizing!


Why do you take a valid point & ridicule it rather than either answer it directly?


My points weren't all about you - you may have a well-documented dislike or physical reaction to vapours & odours, but that's not everyone. Nor has everyone tried enamels - people coming into the hobby might never have used them after reading posts from the acrylic lobby.


Aa for your overriding need to prove that all Vallejo products are sooo safe, you're again missing the point!


Because a product is water soluble doesn't mean it can't cause harm, particles of paint caught in the lungs could potentially have long-term effects that are currently unknown - you banging on about that could be harmful for less experienced people who them eschew the use of a face mask etc.

 

[yak face]

Does anyone else remember the good old days ? when all you could get was Humbrol , Airfix or perhaps Gloy or Revell paints . We were all kids just making our models and not giving a stuff what we were using (all enamels BTW) It was such a happy time - Tony

 

[Deleted member 3568]

This is my last comment on the subject as wherever I've seen a thread about acrylics v enamels it nearly always descends into a slanging match, acrylics are this enamels are that. People are so taken with their paint choice they seem to take any comment about their chosen paint type as a personal insult, yes I know enamels have their faults and limits, but then so do acrylics, my personal opinion is enamels work for me acrylics dont, if it's the other way round for you that's fine, we have all seen some truly stunning and outstanding work produced by both, and for some lucky people by a combination of both. I think this topic is destined to go the same way all topics about these paints go, if only enamel and acrylic users could get on in loving harmony, sigh.

 

[dubster72]

This is my last comment on the subject as wherever I've seen a thread about acrylics v enamels it nearly always descends into a slanging match, acrylics are this enamels are that. People are so taken with their paint choice they seem to take any comment about their chosen paint type as a personal insult, yes I know enamels have their faults and limits, but then so do acrylics, my personal opinion is enamels work for me acrylics dont, if it's the other way round for you that's fine, we have all seen some truly stunning and outstanding work produced by both, and for some lucky people by a combination of both. I think this topic is destined to go the same way all topics about these paints go, if only enamel and acrylic users could get on in loving harmony, sigh.

I don't see it as a slanging match Ken - merely a spirited discussion!


But my points to Laurie about the known hazards of using modern acrylic paint are extremely valid.


The formulation of modelling acrylics is completely different to the older type. For example Tamiya acrylics are synthetic, strictly not water-based but with an alcohol base. That's why they can be thinned with cellulose thinners - you couldn't do that with a truly water based product.


It takes time for long-term health effects to show up. Years ago no-one knew how harmful smoking was, or asbestos or MDF dust. But they're all now known to be carcinogenic.


Not everyone on this forum is a member - some are guests & if they're reading that Vallejo acrylics are water soluble & no harm to health in any way (as Laurie likes to put it) ,then they might not take sensible precautions.

 

[john i am]

I agree with everything Ken just said and he uses enamels !

 

[Laurie]

& no harm to health in any way

Here we go again. I have not said that any where on this forum ever or any where else.


I have always stipulated that any paint should be used in a properly ventilated space with a


mask.


A mask properly designated for the products being used. This matter only came


up a couple of days ago and to which I replied in exactly the same vein.


This is an extract from Vallejo Q & A site.


5.12. Model Air is manufactured especially for airbrushing.


do i need to wear a mask when i use the product?


Model Air contains no harmful pigments, but wearing a mask when


airbrushing is always a good idea. Anything foreign in the air we breathe,


be it dust or pollen, is best not inhaled, and pigment particles, even if not


toxic, are still foreign matter.


Laurie


PS. http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/3125a70282d7ae1b26302b70f227e502/model-FAQS-CC001-rev03.pdf


Item 15 at the end gives details of health and Safety. It is worth, for acrylic uses, reading all the Q & As as


there is a lot of valuable information.

 

[Bunkerbarge]

I sometimes wonder as we rehash the same arguments over and over again, and this one staggeringly is running on two consecutive threads at the moment despite being talked to death many times over, just how much modelling we could have done in the time we have put into these discussions.


Makes you think. Well it should do.

 

[Dave1973]

My honest reason for using acyrlics over enamels? I just find it easier for me. I suffer with my hands (due to the damagd nerves in my back) and make a mess with tinlets lids and pots.


The debate about smell, im not sure is totally valid, if i open up a tinlet of humbrol, i am not instantly attacked with a smell, infact theres no smell unless you stick your nose in it and sniff!


There is however a more heavy smell when airbrushing, due to the use of thinners, but as patrick says decent equipment eleviates that.


Enamel will ALWAYS be harder once cured than acrylics, thats a fact. They do take a little longer to dry, but if the person using them is happy then whats the problem?


Paint is paint. Saying you cant do things with enamels, you cant do things with acrylics is ridiculous and pointless. Theyre paint, both will do the same things, with an adjustment of technique. The result will be similar, and in most cases this is acceptable. Exactly the same has happened in the motor trade, with oil based 2k to water based paint.


I have a bunch of tinlets, i dont use because of my hands, but enamels have their purposes ifthe user feels they will work for that particular application.


Mig jimnez in his masterclass (who creates acrylics predominantly) shows the use of acrylics to paint with, but then pulls a tin of humbrol out to use for a smoke effect, his words? He finds the enamel paint gives a better effect in this case over acrylics.


So there it is, both have their uses, and enamels wont be dissapearing in my opinion. I dont use them because i make a mess.


As i stated before, if they put the enamel in a dropper bottle, id probably use them more.


I also get dismayed to watch two people i respect on here become agitated by paint! Stop it you are better than that!

 

[Deleted member 4539]

Everyone in life has a point of view.


If you like using enamel,great.If you like using acrylic,great.


We are all here to enjoy an hobby and get lost in the love of building/painting kit's.


Whatever methods are used is not important.


Happy modelling.


Ralph.

 

[Netboy]

My paint of choice would probably be enamel, however in reality I almost exclusively use acrylics because of their ease of use. I used some silky matt black recently and thought I would use some enamel. It took at least two days to dry fully! The equivalent acrylic was touch dry in an hour.

 

[Dave Jay]

It seems I have unintentionally caused quite a furore for which I am deeply sorry. I agree with debate but when it turns in to a slanging match where people get personal with it, then it's simply not worth it. OK I started the thread which I bitterly regret but I could not see from the outset what the outcome would be, if I had known, then I wouldn't of effing bothered.


All I wanted to know is whether enamels are done with and whether there was a better alternative.


Thanks to most for their feedback and input.


But..............................................


There are times when...................................


I WISH I DIDN'T BOTHER.

 

[dubster72]

It seems I have unintentionally caused quite a furore for which I am deeply sorry. I agree with debate but when it turns in to a slanging match where people get personal with it, then it's simply not worth it. OK I started the thread which I bitterly regret but I could not see from the outset what the outcome would be, if I had known, then I wouldn't of effing bothered.
All I wanted to know is whether enamels are done with and whether there was a better alternative.


Thanks to most for their feedback and input.


But..............................................


There are times when...................................


I WISH I DIDN'T BOTHER.

Don't worry Dave! Happens on here all the time!


Personally I can't see the problem - if you have articulate passionate people discussing a topic, then you'll get strong opinions. It's the same in any club, pub or cafe - at least here we don't shout!


But perhaps we should all be docile sheep for fear of speaking our minds?

 

[Laurie]

Makes you think. Well it should do.

So right Richard. I shall not waste my time any more.


Laurie

 

[stona]

Does anyone else remember the good old days ? when all you could get was Humbrol , Airfix or perhaps Gloy or Revell paints . We were all kids just making our models and not giving a stuff what we were using (all enamels BTW) It was such a happy time - Tony

I certainly do. Drying time was an issue then as I always tried to finish a model before I started it. On the positive side, the fingerprints in the paintwork matched the gluey ones on the canopies. Tacky paint seemed to help the decals stick, just ever so slightly in the wrong places


Laurie it's not just about toxicity or a lack thereof. It's whether you want to inhale an aerosol of paint particles, whatever they are. That's why I keep saying that we should all be protecting ourselves whatever system we find best.


Alclad can provide a great demonstration of this. I sprayed a very small amount without bothering to turn on my extractor. It was a sunny day and the 'metallic' particles glittered like 'C-beams in the dark near the Tannhauser gate' as a famous skin job once said. Normally they would have been invisible.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Laurie]

Laurie it's not just about toxicity or a lack thereof. It's whether you want to inhale an aerosol of paint particles, whatever they are. That's why I keep saying that we should all be protecting ourselves whatever system we find best.
.

If you care to look some replies back Steve !!! That in essence is what I have stated.


Now for a long sabbatical I am just fed up with being misquoted.


Laurie

 

[Dave Jay]

Sorry for causing such grief. I'm out of here.