Needle Size?.

[jono]

OK when reading the threads on airbrushes people say you should try using this size Needle/Nozzle or that size Needle/Nozzle, were can you check to see what size Needle/Nozzle is fitted to the brush...


I am using the normal cheapo airbrush that comes with the compressor from ebay & have no idea what size is fitted to the brush, only that I keep getting blockages every time im using it & not sure if the needle is a small size & I might need to thin the paint more than I do now..


Hoping to go to a H&S Evolution when my Birthday comes around LOL :D :D.

 

[phikoleoputra]

I think those cheapo a/b normally are 0.3 it's for an all around a/b work and you can achieve a fine line with 0.3. i think the 0.18 or 0.2 are for the detail work, but I heard the H&S has the 2in1 a/b that you can change the nozzle from 0.3 to 0.2 if I'm not mistaken. Hope that helps

 

[stona]

1/72 Fw 190, not very big at all, sprayed entirely freehand with a 0.35mm needle/nozzle.


View attachment 104074



It is perfectly possible to spray fine detail with this sort of needle size as long as you get your paint thinning and pressures correct. It is a fallacy that you need smaller sizes for 'detail' work. I can easily spray a pencil thin line with the 0.35mm set up.


Smaller sizes are designed for finer media, like inks, and the chances of blockages are much higher, particularly for acrylic users.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Laurie]

John assuming you are using Acrylics Vallejo Lifecolor etc. Not using enamels so I can not give an answer on that type of paint. Also my experience is with Acrylic water based but using the manufacturers own thinners. I would not use water as it has its in built tension whereas manufacturers thinners does not. John if you could give the paint you are using, pressure you are using plus if you are thinning the paint and what thinners that would be of a great help.


Can the supplier of the airbrush not tell you the size of the needle/nozzle. If on Amazon you can pose the question. On Ebay I am not sure.


For general work spraying in large areas ie a fuselage on a 1/72 or 1/48 I use an Iwata fitted with a .35 needle/nozzle Also I have used and still use for varnish a .4 on a Harder and Steenbeck. For me these seem perfect for this work.


If you are getting a H and S they are great airbrushes and I used them for about 4 year. They on average have the option of .18, .2, .4 and .6 needle/ nozzle sizes. Having recently converted to Iwata I find, for me, they give a slightly better finish but they are" the very devil to take apart and clean". H & S are very simple to take apart. My record was 4 minutes take completely apart deep clean each part and put together. Iwata not timed but it compares to using a garden lawn mower on the Oval cricket ground.


I do not, sorry Steve, agree on the fine detailing. For detail fine shading weathering I have used recently and extensively an Iwata with a .2 needle/nozzle for which gives me greater control. I have tried my .35 for detailed work and though good there is much more paint control with the .2 which gives a smaller cone, about two thirds of a .35, plus the amount of paint pushed out is smaller giving further control.


If you are using acrylics then it is worth trying the Vallejo Flow Improver. Not used it yet mainly as I have it but cannot find it :rolleyes:. But have heard good reports.


Laurie

 

[stona]

Well Laurie for fine detail you just get closer. You should be able to spray a line little thicker than the nozzle size. If you need detail less than 0.5-1mm then a smaller nozzle might be required. As for the amount of paint pushed out, you should be controlling that too, with the trigger. It's the whole point of a double action airbrush


Cheers


Steve

 

[jono]

I think those cheapo a/b normally are 0.3 it's for an all around a/b work and you can achieve a fine line with 0.3. i think the 0.18 or 0.2 are for the detail work, but I heard the H&S has the 2in1 a/b that you can change the nozzle from 0.3 to 0.2 if I'm not mistaken. Hope that helps

Thanks Leo, yes it is the 2 in 1 Evolution that I was thinking of as it comes with a .2 & .4 nozzle..

 

[jono]

1/72 Fw 190, not very big at all, sprayed entirely freehand with a 0.35mm needle/nozzle.
View attachment 114280


It is perfectly possible to spray fine detail with this sort of needle size as long as you get your paint thinning and pressures correct. It is a fallacy that you need smaller sizes for 'detail' work. I can easily spray a pencil thin line with the 0.35mm set up.


Smaller sizes are designed for finer media, like inks, and the chances of blockages are much higher, particularly for acrylic users.


Cheers


Steve

Hi Steve, ive not been using an airbrush for very long so at the moment not trying any fine detail work with it yet, maybe as im using Acrylic I need to thin more than I am doing to stop the blockages..


Or I could send my finished models to you to paint after looking at your photo LOL.... :D :D:D.


John.

 

[phikoleoputra]

Thanks Leo, yes it is the 2 in 1 Evolution that I was thinking of as it comes with a .2 & .4 nozzle..

I currently use the 0.3 needle and it works perfect for me, I can tackle from 1/72 to 1/32 and works just fine and I use enamel paints only up till now.

 

[jono]

John assuming you are using Acrylics Vallejo Lifecolor etc. Not using enamels so I can not give an answer on that type of paint. Also my experience is with Acrylic water based but using the manufacturers own thinners. I would not use water as it has its in built tension whereas manufacturers thinners does not. John if you could give the paint you are using, pressure you are using plus if you are thinning the paint and what thinners that would be of a great help.
Can the supplier of the airbrush not tell you the size of the needle/nozzle. If on Amazon you can pose the question. On Ebay I am not sure.


For general work spraying in large areas ie a fuselage on a 1/72 or 1/48 I use an Iwata fitted with a .35 needle/nozzle Also I have used and still use for varnish a .4 on a Harder and Steenbeck. For me these seem perfect for this work.


If you are getting a H and S they are great airbrushes and I used them for about 4 year. They on average have the option of .18, .2, .4 and .6 needle/ nozzle sizes. Having recently converted to Iwata I find, for me, they give a slightly better finish but they are" the very devil to take apart and clean". H & S are very simple to take apart. My record was 4 minutes take completely apart deep clean each part and put together. Iwata not timed but it compares to using a garden lawn mower on the Oval cricket ground.


I do not, sorry Steve, agree on the fine detailing. For detail fine shading weathering I have used recently and extensively an Iwata with a .2 needle/nozzle for which gives me greater control. I have tried my .35 for detailed work and though good there is much more paint control with the .2 which gives a smaller cone, about two thirds of a .35, plus the amount of paint pushed out is smaller giving further control.


If you are using acrylics then it is worth trying the Vallejo Flow Improver. Not used it yet mainly as I have it but cannot find it :rolleyes:. But have heard good reports.


Laurie

Hi Laurie, I only use acrylic paints mainly Tamiya & Revell, also have some Humbrol & recently some Vallejo & use the appropriate thinners for the paint being used. Started off at 35psi pressure & slowly came down to 20psi.


The reason for me going for the H&S is, as you say a lot easier to strip & clean as I am disabled with lung issues so the less I have to do the better for me . At the moment I have to keep stopping the painting to clear blockages, hopefully that will be a thing of the past once I get the new brush..


John.

 

[Laurie]

Well Laurie for fine detail you just get closer. You should be able to spray a line little thicker than the nozzle size. If you need detail less than 0.5-1mm then a smaller nozzle might be required. As for the amount of paint pushed out, you should be controlling that too, with the trigger. It's the whole point of a double action airbrush
Cheers


Steve

Not want to make to much of this Steve as it is for others to experiment themselves as I have to achieve what they want.


Well Laurie for fine detail you just get closer Yes agree Steve but the cone on the smaller needle will let you get closer or with the smaller cone you do not have to get so close as you would with a larger needle. On the paint being released I experimented a little while ago when this matter popped up. With what I call fuzzy work for shading (not lines) the amount of paint released is important for control. I tried some time ago and found using the same amount of paint timing the rate the .2 took 30% more time to empty the cup than the .35 with the same amount of paint and with the trigger pulled right back. For my fuzzy work the amount of paint released gives more control on my fuzziness. ie more time as less paint is being released which also gives more more control from the trigger.


But then not every body is going to do fuzzy work. Not attempted lines I suppose it does not matter so much about the above.


Laurie

 

[jono]

I currently use the 0.3 needle and it works perfect for me, I can tackle from 1/72 to 1/32 and works just fine and I use enamel paints only up till now.

Im using acrylics & the painting is going ok until the blockages start playing up. .


John.

 

[stona]

Hi Steve, ive not been using an airbrush for very long so at the moment not trying any fine detail work with it yet, maybe as im using Acrylic I need to thin more than I am doing to stop the blockages..
John.

Hi John, acrylic paints with which I did flirt a few years ago are inevitably going to be prone to blockages caused by drying at the nozzle. There are both flow improvers and drying retarders available. I used to use a retarder to mitigate the drying at the tip and always had a cotton bud soaked in alcohol at the ready!


I've now reverted back to enamel paints and this problem no longer exists. I do understand that enamels do not suit many people for various reasons and that they will have to persevere with whatever they choose in order to overcome the problems.


A balance needs to be struck between thinning and pressure. In my opinion many hobby sprayers spray at FAR too low pressure. There is a limit to how much you can thin paint (no matter what sort) before it ceases to work properly. There is no reason why you can't spray at 30-40 psi, as I do. All you can do is get some scrap plastic or card and have a play with your set up. Eventually you will stumble upon a method that works for you! Unfortunately nobody can tell you exactly what that will be.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Laurie]

The reason for me going for the H&S is, as you say a lot easier to strip & clean as I am disabled with lung issues so the less I have to do the better for me . At the moment I have to keep stopping the painting to clear blockages, hopefully that will be a thing of the past once I get the new brush..

In your circumstances Jono the H & S is perfect. I used to strip and clean the H & S every time I used the brush. But on the Iwata as it is such a pain I just use Vallejo airbrush Cleaner every session and strip down at the end of a project for a spring clean. With the H & S that regime will be better for your circumstances and will work OK. Best thing with your difficulties is to get http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/medea-airbrush-cleaning-station-e-cpot.html one of these. It stops a lot of things escaping into the air as it has a filter on the air outlet.


I hope you do not mind but I have to applaud you Jono for your persistence in carrying on with life and not taking the easy path.


Laurie

 

[jono]

Hi John, acrylic paints with which I did flirt a few years ago are inevitably going to be prone to blockages caused by drying at the nozzle. There are both flow improvers and drying retarders available. I used to use a retarder to mitigate the drying at the tip and always had a cotton bud soaked in alcohol at the ready!
I've now reverted back to enamel paints and this problem no longer exists. I do understand that enamels do not suit many people for various reasons and that they will have to persevere with whatever they choose in order to overcome the problems.


A balance needs to be struck between thinning and pressure. In my opinion many hobby sprayers spray at FAR too low pressure. There is a limit to how much you can thin paint (no matter what sort) before it ceases to work properly. There is no reason why you can't spray at 30-40 psi, as I do. All you can do is get some scrap plastic or card and have a play with your set up. Eventually you will stumble upon a method that works for you! Unfortunately nobody can tell you exactly what that will be.


Cheers


Steve

Hi Steve, I use acrylic for health reasons & lately have started using Revell thinner & extender which slows the drying time to lessen blockages at the nozzle.


Finding the balance of paint/thinners is something im still trying to work out lol.


while my spraying might not be first class I think im doing ok except for all the blockages this is my biggest problem..


John.

 

[jono]

In your circumstances Jono the H & S is perfect. I used to strip and clean the H & S every time I used the brush. But on the Iwata as it is such a pain I just use Vallejo airbrush Cleaner every session and strip down at the end of a project for a spring clean. With the H & S that regime will be better for your circumstances and will work OK. Best thing with your difficulties is to get http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/medea-airbrush-cleaning-station-e-cpot.html one of these. It stops a lot of things escaping into the air as it has a filter on the air outlet.
I hope you do not mind but I have to applaud you Jono for your persistence in carrying on with life and not taking the easy path.


Laurie

Thank you for your input Laurie, I have both the Vallejo airbrush cleaner & a cleaning station which I use every time I use the brush.


With my issues I take all the precautions I can when painting ... spray booth with extractor fan, a face mask with proper filters not just a dust mask, only problem using the mask is I cant have it on too long before I have to remove it to go on oxygen for a top up lol..


building the models & being on this forum helps to keep me going .


Many Thanks to you & everyone else on the forum...


John.

 

[Ian M]

I understand you Can get frustrated with blockages, paint drying on the needle/nozzle.


As Steve pointed out, it's a good idea to have a cotton bud soaking in thinners appropriate to the paint. This can more often than not clean the crud from the needle to enable you to continue.


You could also be spraying at to high pressure and holding back on the paint to compensate. This will dry the paint on the needle quicker than you can say bugger!


As for help with the thinning, get hold of some clear plastic 'shot glasses'. Add some paint then add thinners and any additives then stir up until well mixed. The paint should be like milk on the side of a glass. Or you should just be able to see your fingers holding the glass though the paint on the side of the glass.


Adjust the air pressure until you can get a good flow of paint with the trigger full open. Also as said, the bigger the spray, the further away from the target you will need to be, the smaller the spray the closer you move in.


Needle size in an air-brush is more related to the medium you put through it than the size of spray you wish to make. For all but the finest detail work a 0.25 or 0.35 will be more than adequate.


Ian M

 

[jono]

I understand you Can get frustrated with blockages, paint drying on the needle/nozzle.
As Steve pointed out, it's a good idea to have a cotton bud soaking in thinners appropriate to the paint. This can more often than not clean the crud from the needle to enable you to continue.


You could also be spraying at to high pressure and holding back on the paint to compensate. This will dry the paint on the needle quicker than you can say bugger!


As for help with the thinning, get hold of some clear plastic 'shot glasses'. Add some paint then add thinners and any additives then stir up until well mixed. The paint should be like milk on the side of a glass. Or you should just be able to see your fingers holding the glass though the paint on the side of the glass.


Adjust the air pressure until you can get a good flow of paint with the trigger full open. Also as said, the bigger the spray, the further away from the target you will need to be, the smaller the spray the closer you move in.


Needle size in an air-brush is more related to the medium you put through it than the size of spray you wish to make. For all but the finest detail work a 0.25 or 0.35 will be more than adequate.


Ian M

Thanks Ian, the blockages are the main problem that im having, even with thinning Tamiya & Vallejo Air paints which ive read can be used in airbrushes without thinning im still getting blockages.


When I started using the brush I was using at 35psi. pressure & gradually reduced down to 20psi. So maybe I will try uping the pressure & thin the paint a bit more & see how that goes .

 

[tanktrack]

If you are using acrylics then it is worth trying the Vallejo Flow Improver. Not used it yet mainly as I have it but cannot find it :rolleyes:. But have heard good reports

l
Laurie the Scale Model Shop does the flow improver I got some the other day and hope to use it shortly .

 

[Laurie]

l
Laurie the Scale Model Shop does the flow improver I got some the other day and hope to use it shortly .

Thanks Steve. When I mentioned finding it I had lost it some where in my model making area. Forgotten that it was a 200ml bottle and was looking for a 50ml . Migration of brain cells. Some days they immigrate themselves back but the migration days have the upper hand over the immigration days during the winter.


Thanks Steve.


Laurie

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

I like using the standard Iwata .35 needle size. It can do pencil thin lines and yet do large coverage. I never have had blockages with this. Go any lower, and you will have problems with blockages with paint drying and jamming at the end


John