Tamiya sdkfz 251/1 (ish)

[Jakko]

Right, wait, I think we had a bit of miscommunication there. I knew immediately what perforated bits you were talking about, but this:—

what appears to be spares attached to the inner hull side

had me confused. I understand now that you mean that the perforated parts aren’t on the seat backs in all kits, but stowed on the hull sides somewhere? I have no idea why that would be.

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

Here's the Eduard seats.
and the AFV Club 251 D. Part UB06 appears to be a spare seat back.

 

[Steve Jones]

I would hazard a guess they were used for protection. Equipment in the back sliding down the seats into the back of the driver and passenger seat with just a bit of foam and spring would be quite painful.

 

[Xarathustra]

Oh dear...all this talk of photo-etching has made me make a purchase!

My kit is #35020 so I've been careful to get the right Eduard cat. number (35432). Apparently this is therefore an Ausf C version that I have...or at least it'll probably be somewhere near that by the time I've finished!
Not sure how much of the photo-etch I'll use due to expected fiddliness & inexperience, but against Jacko's advice I'm...going in!

Quick question: does this stuff somehow wrap itself around existing parts, or is super-glue required? I'm assuming the latter.

 

[Steve Jones]

This link may help you George

HERE

 

[minitnkr]

They only show up in a small % of "in action" photos, so would appear to be some sort of option. Maybe as suggested. Many pics show seat backs folded down to the rear to allow easier movement, maybe they were to protect the seat back from damage then. PaulE

 

[Xarathustra]

A bit of filling required around the joins between the floor & sides...of course most of this’ll be hidden by the seats, but no half measures etc...
I had to cut the lugs off the bottom of the seats otherwise they would’ve been pushed out of place by the sides...sigh
Dry fit until the Eduard eching arrives.


Wheels next I think as I can do more priming in one shot then...

 

[Jakko]

I would hazard a guess they were used for protection. Equipment in the back sliding down the seats into the back of the driver and passenger seat with just a bit of foam and spring would be quite painful.

Agreed, that’s what they look like to me as well: a plate to stop the driver and commander being poked in the back by shifting cargo/infantrymen’s weapons/boots. Why they’d need to be able to stow them on the hull sides, I still have no idea, though — it seems simpler all around to just to leave them attached to the seats at all times.

 

[Jakko]

Jacko

Please see at left (Pronunciation is /ˈjaˌkoː/, or approximately in English phonetics, YAH-co with short “a” and long “o” )

Quick question: does this stuff somehow wrap itself around existing parts, or is super-glue required? I'm assuming the latter.

It’s normally superglued. The material is a thin sheet of brass (usually) from which the areas immediately around the parts are removed using acid, so basically, what the set provides are flat pieces of metal that you will have to fold, bend, and otherwise shape into the form needed. Start out with the simpler bits that don’t require much folding — don’t try to put together a complicated stowage rack at your first attempt

First of all, you’ll want to sand the back of the sheet (or both sides) with coarse sandpaper, to give the glue more surface to grip. When it comes to removing parts, I use a sturdy hobby knife to cut the parts from the fret, by pressing down onto a hard surface like a ceramic tile. Be sure to hold the part with a finger so it can’t go flying I then clean up the attachment points that are left by holding the part between long-nosed pliers (with flat surfaces, not ribbed) so that just the attachment point sticks out, then filing it down.

Apply superglue sparingly, so that when the part is in the right place and the glue has set, you can add a bit more into the seams using a sharpened cocktail stick or something.

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

And don't expect to use all the PE parts- some are just too tiny and others will replace bits that don't really need replacing.
Jon.

 

[Xarathustra]

Please see at left (Pronunciation is /ˈjaˌkoː/, or approximately in English phonetics, YAH-co with short “a” and long “o” )


It’s normally superglued. The material is a thin sheet of brass (usually) from which the areas immediately around the parts are removed using acid, so basically, what the set provides are flat pieces of metal that you will have to fold, bend, and otherwise shape into the form needed. Start out with the simpler bits that don’t require much folding — don’t try to put together a complicated stowage rack at your first attempt

First of all, you’ll want to sand the back of the sheet (or both sides) with coarse sandpaper, to give the glue more surface to grip. When it comes to removing parts, I use a sturdy hobby knife to cut the parts from the fret, by pressing down onto a hard surface like a ceramic tile. Be sure to hold the part with a finger so it can’t go flying I then clean up the attachment points that are left by holding the part between long-nosed pliers (with flat surfaces, not ribbed) so that just the attachment point sticks out, then filing it down.

Apply superglue sparingly, so that when the part is in the right place and the glue has set, you can add a bit more into the seams using a sharpened cocktail stick or something.

Oops...sorry...that’s predictive text for you

Thanks for the etching advice

 

[Xarathustra]

Day one of my etching learning curve. Yes! Bending these things are tricky to say the least...I made a mess of the radio but luckily that’ll be almost invisible (I just had to cut off the ‘cage’ that’s supposed to surround it).
The eduard instrument panel will only fit if I sand away the raised Tamiya one...so that’s what happened.



I’ve done the back of the seats, but my god does superglue dry fast with this stuff!!!
Also managed to successfully bend some parts around the gearbox



Dry fit of the flooring & gearbox bits. A tried to add a few tiny bits to the (tool?) box on the left hull but they just disappeared into thin air!

 

[Xarathustra]

Does anyone know what this ‘support’ is on the left hull. There’s one the other side as well.



And there are 4 cross-bars at right angles to the hull...I assume these are supports for a canvas covering of some sorts. These need bending which is beyond my capabilities at the moment.

Oh...forgot to thank jakko again. Without his tips, I’d not have had a clue about cutting, sanding & gluing this stuff!

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

That bracket is,I think,exactly that.It supports the upper hull and driver's station roof.
the canvas tilt supports are just semi-circular hoops.
if the 4 cross bars are inside the hull they are probably for the storage bins and rifle rack.
Jon.
P.s. All looks very good so far.

 

[Xarathustra]

That bracket is,I think,exactly that.It supports the upper hull and driver's station roof.
the canvas tilt supports are just semi-circular hoops.
if the 4 cross bars are inside the hull they are probably for the storage bins and rifle rack.
Jon.
P.s. All looks very good so far.

Thanks Jon.
Yes the 4 bars run over the top of the hull at right angles...they’re not inside the hull as such...these...which must be canvas roof supports

 

[Jakko]

Does anyone know what this ‘support’ is on the left hull. There’s one the other side as well.

View attachment 323423

That’s the flange along which the front (engine/cab) and rear (passenger) sections of the hull are bolted together. It should line up with either an engraved line or the middle of two lines of rivets on the outer face.

And there are 4 cross-bars at right angles to the hull...I assume these are supports for a canvas covering of some sorts.

Those tilt supports should really only be on the 251/8 ambulance, AFAIK, and then they were usually of round cross-section rather than flat. There are some photos of them on other variants, but you hardly ever see them — so no worries if you don’t feel up to bending them: adding them would probably be less accurate than leaving them off

Oh...forgot to thank jakko again. Without his tips, I’d not have had a clue about cutting, sanding & gluing this stuff!

You’re welcome

 

[Xarathustra]

That’s the flange along which the front (engine/cab) and rear (passenger) sections of the hull are bolted together. It should line up with either an engraved line or the middle of two lines of rivets on the outer face.


Those tilt supports should really only be on the 251/8 ambulance, AFAIK, and then they were usually of round cross-section rather than flat. There are some photos of them on other variants, but you hardly ever see them — so no worries if you don’t feel up to bending them: adding them would probably be less accurate than leaving them off


You’re welcome

Yes...after Jon said what the supports were for it seemed so obvious. For some reason I'd neglected to even think that the upper hull would go 'over' them when in place!

I've tried to mess around with one of the tilt supports...I don't think I'll bother really as there are other fiddly bits needed too (including 0.6mm wire which I don't have). Once bent, the supports don't look very good as the damn things need to be folded in half before bending...and then another flat strip needs to be put on top of it. Although this may cover the wonkyness to some extent, but all in all I'm not going to bother.

 

[Jakko]

If I look in the Schützenpanzer book I mentioned earlier, in the first hundred pages or so, with on average more than one photo per page, I find very few photos of 251s with tilt supports. The first one in the book is of a /8, which is an ambulance and should always have them (but three, not four, and round rather than flat), then one of a 251/1 Ausf. A, and a few photos of Ausf. Cs with two or three hoops each, and that’s about it. Also, on the 251/1 Ausf. Cs, the hoops seem to be just the flat bit, not the vertical part that Eduard would have you bend and glue underneath.

You could add them to your model and it wouldn’t be wrong, but 251s were much more common without than with them, so my advice would be to save yourself the hassle of trying to assemble these parts and just leave them off. If you do really, really want to add them, it would be simplest to just fit part No. 36, without trying to bend No. 62 to go underneath, since like I said on the real thing they give the impression of having been flat strips rather than T-beams.

 

[Xarathustra]

Good idea with just fitting #36. I’ll have a go & see what they look like as this is all practice really...thanks again

 

[JR]

Well you seem to be getting on with the PE .
John is quite right in saying you won't use all of the P in his earlier reply.
The good thing is bits of it seem to come in handy on other models !
John .