What have I done here?

[Mike]

I have in the past used Super Glue the gel type to coat pieces which just gives an added strength.

You sir, are a genius! The two offending pieces aren't in contact, but superglue happily bridges the gap and now it stands of its own volition:

Looking much more like a Hurricane now! It's still a bit loose, but it's only just been applied so leaving it upside down overnight to dry, but that's achieved exactly what I was after! Many thanks!

 

[Mike]

OK, last question (on this thread anyway, you guys are way too helpful to stop asking questions!)

So, just about finished with this build, got a bit of silvering but that's because I didn't gloss it before hand, but that's fine I know what I did there and it's on the underside so not overly visible. Only thing left is the canopy which is drying after being painted with a cocktail stick as masking it was too much of a pia!

Anyway, my question is about the colours, below on the left is the hurricane with Vallejo Model Air Dark Earth and Dark Green. On the right is a Spitfire with those starter kit acrylics, again in dark earth and dark green:

It's difficult to display on a camera phone, but the contrast is piss poor with the Vallejo colours where as the Airfix Starter and Humbrol (acrylic and enamel - I have both!) have a much better contrast as the dark earth isn't quite so dark!

I've only done one coat, which whilst not massively thick, is obviously thick enough for one coat in the spray booth, neither model had an undercoat so it was straight onto plastic. In the Hurricane, I sprayed the green over the dark earth which in essence was the undercoat. Colours I'm using are:

Vallejo 71.029 and Humbrol 29 for Dark Earth

Vallejo 71.012 and Humrbol 30 for Dark Green

Am I using the wrong colours, or wrong technique (or both!). I have seen one video where they do 3 or 4 really light layers which would work better, especially if I had a white undercoat, but I still think the contrast between these two Vallejo colours is not enough compared to Humbrol.

On another point, will this help with the scale effect? I've seen you guys talk about this where you need a higher contrast depending on the scale, how does that work?!

 

[Laurie]

I have used the 71029 but matched that with 71016 for green. But there is not much difference between green 16 or 12.

But I use a white to lighten the colours to suit the scale. But have found these colours to be reasonably representative of the true colours.

You are never going to get a Humbrol or Vallejo in the Dark Earth or Dark Green as there is no exact match. Even found that an FS colour with Lifecolor and an FS colour with Vallejo are different. Used to get hung up on exactness but soon found I was wasting time and effort.

I find it always best to test colours before getting near to an airbrush. Test them in areas the size your are going to cover on the model. I take a long time over getting this right as otherwise you have closed the gate. Sacrilege I know but I alter the colours to suit what looks right. On the Merlin Helicopter, as mentioned before some where, the colours by Airfix just looked abominable. Looking at picture of Merlin's in action bore no resemblance to Humbol Colours or the colour the Merlin came out of the factory in.

Scale. I always lighten. I always use white. But may not use the (near) authentic colour to start with as this may destroy the colour. A bit of experience rather like testing UK, Guernsey and Jersey Cream. You soon find out. The answer to this conundrum is--------- Jersey Cream by a mile. Nice colour as well not yellow not to much white. Jersey cows are so clever.

Laurie

Bit of extra info on Jersey Cows. Why were Jersey Cows imported into Peru .

Answer. Peru has steep stepped hillsides. Peruvian cows kept falling from the hills and tumbling to the bottom of the valley. It was found that the so pretty Jersey Cows were sure footed and were not as stupid as the Peruvian sisters and managed the steps perfectly. This is a fact delivered to me by the Jersey Cow guru.

 

[Mike]

I have used the 71029 but matched that with 71016 for green. But there is not much difference between green 16 or 12.

Hmm, I have this, giving it a try on a busted plane

 

[dubster72]

I avoid using white, the contrast change is too great. Cream, stone, yellow all work better IMHO, although it's always down to personal taste & the base colour in question.

 

[stona]

I don't think trying to exactly match original colours is very helpful either. I do think a knowledge of the original colours is useful in trying to get your model to look right. It's a model, not a full sized aeroplane, and this is definitely a more artistic than scientific endeavour.

To my eye, and in those slightly dodgy photos, the green is too green, almost blue/green on the Spitfire, and not 'olive' enough on both models. The Vallejo Dark Earth looks much too red, but that's just one man's opinion

I don't usually give a view on the colours on someone else's model....but you did ask!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Mike]

I don't usually give a view on the colours on someone else's model....but you did ask!

Indeed I did! I'm just surprised by the lack of contrast, admittedly it's winter and I don't have a lot of light to play with so it does look worse on these photo's, but the Hurricane is still really poor to the eye. So, question to you then, what colours (and brand) did you paint this Spitfire with? (FANTASTIC job by the way!)

Because the contrast in this picture is good - admittedly, you had light to take the photo with, which I'm sure helped!

 

[Mike]

I have used the 71029 but matched that with 71016 for green. But there is not much difference between green 16 or 12.But I use a white to lighten the colours to suit the scale. But have found these colours to be reasonably representative of the true colours.

Well, tried that on a busted build (also the Mk I Hurricane!):

On the right wing (as if you were sat in the cockpit) of the part painted plane, we have dark earth with 2 drops of white, and panzer olive (71096). On the right hand wing, we have out of the bottle dark earth and US Dark Green (71016).

Contrast is better on the right wing, but I'm still not happy with it. Going to have to do more testing.

I'm starting to wonder, if I hadn't started with Humbrol paints and accepted that as how it should be, whether I'd be overly bothered by the lack of contrast in poor light...!!!

 

[stona]

Mike those models of the 'dog fight double' are painted with the now soon to be defunct White Ensign Colourcoat enamels. They are 1/72 scale and I intentionally increased the contrast of the colours on both models by lightening the lighter colours (Dark Earth and RLM 71 respectively) more than the darker colours. That's what I really mean about being artistic rather than scientific. I just went until the colours looked right to my eye.

Maybe the fundamental difference between this and Vallejo, Lifecolor etc is that the paints I used, before lightening, shading etc, were good matches for the original colours having been explicitly manufactured to be so.

Also the photo is taken in natural daylight with a decent compact digital camera. It has to be a decent camera (Canon S100) because my photographic skills are minimal to put it mildly

Cheers

Steve

 

[Laurie]

Mike

To give an example of colours in models making.

The first photo is of a Lysander in a museum. The second and third are my Lysander to my colours. I used Vallejo 12 and 29..

I mixed white (which is the sum of all colours except black which is not a colour) with both.

What the photos do tell is that neither is the actual depth of colour which they came out of the factory.

So the answer as far as I am concerned is unless it looks like the colour I want on my shelf, which will look right to me, it is back to the mixing pallett.

By the way lighting is important. I work under white light yellow lighting gives a yellowness to all colours even white as it then becomes not white. How you achieve the colour you want using what ever colour is your choice. There are no rules.

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Do not get depressed about all of this it is a journey I had and I am sure many others and you are going the right way about it.

Laurie

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

I can't really agree with that. A softer edge might make a more pleasing artistic effect, but in fact the demarcation of the upper colours was tightly regulated by the Ministry. Many believe that masks were used to speed up the spraying process, and there is much anecdotal evidence to support this at the Hawker factory.The camouflage demarcations would have been tight when the aircraft left the factory, whether or not masks were used.













What happened later, if an aircraft was repaired and/or re-sprayed is less certain, and there is certainly evidence for some somewhat softer demarcations.



This was less common than you might expect. I've had to really search my files for a good picture of a softer demarcation.

As always, the best guide is a good reference photograph.

Cheers

Steve

Interesting. Thanks for that. Next time when I do my spit Mk IX I will try that out.

Thanks, JOhn