Tag Picture Quiz

[Jakko]

V2s were fueled with ethanol and liquid oxygen. Ethanol burns just fine under normal circumstances if given a little assistance, such as a flame or electric heating, never mind if you put it in a 100% oxygen environment

(For all I know it is a box for a fuel heater, though, but let’s say I’d be surprised if it turns out to be that.)

 

[Tim Marlow]

Yes, but both liquid oxygen and liquid ethanol cool when they evaporate, because the state change is endothermic. No matter how aggressive the reaction, the chemical mix has to overcome the activation energy threshold before chemical reaction can initiate. if it didn’t, we wouldn’t have explosives.
I’m not saying I’m right, but that it is actually feasible....unlike my last guess

 

[Allen Dewire]

Yes Jakko, I can understand that and it isn't the easiest item to identify. Maybe think about the V2 rocket propulsion system.......

Oh Tim, You are on to something there Sir! Not solid though......

I have to go out shortly and should be back around 11 pm, my time. I will solve it then if no one has the answer.

 

[Allen Dewire]

I crossed posts and missed the replies. you are very close, but a few items are missing. There are more liquids used than stated, one of which was kept warm...

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

I wonder if this is for the sodium permanganate catalyst.At 70cm in length it's not going to hold a significant amount of anything else.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Did it keep the sodium permanganate catalyst warm that drove the peroxide steam generator.?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Are you deliberately winding me up Jon?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Actually, Allen says “not solid” so perhaps it warmed the Peroxide itself....

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

No way Tim.I wouldn't do that!
any way,the permanganate was in an aqueous solution from what I can see

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Jon
Sodium Permanganate is a red solid with melting point of 36degC...hard to see how it would be liquid, unless the heater melted it? In Solution it would work more like an accelerant much like Pottasium Permanganate

 

[Jakko]

Sodium Permanganate is a red solid with melting point of 36degC...hard to see how it would be liquid, unless the heater melted it?

Read back what you’re saying there …

 

[rickoshea52]

Yes, but both liquid oxygen and liquid ethanol cool when they evaporate,

Really? I thought that liquid oxygen evaporated (gasses off) when it heats up.
It then again I’m no ‍

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

Yeah. Come on Tim.It's not rocket scie.......oh.

 

[Jakko]

Yeah. Come on Tim.It's not rocket scie.......oh.

Even that can be quite straightforward. I remember watching a TV programme about V2 development, with footage of (I think) von Braun saying that when they needed a fuel pump for the rocket, they got representatives of all of Germany’s pump manufacturers together, explained the specs needed, and thought to themselves, “These specs are so high they’ll say it can’t be done.” Then one of the pump manufacturers said, “So … what you’re asking for, is a common fire pump?”

(A comparison could be made between this anecdote and our troubles identifying some things in pictures that the person who posts it, thinks is easy )

 

[Allen Dewire]

Ok Gentlemen,

Jon is correct. The sodium permanganate was kept heated to quicken the reaction with T-Stoff (Hydrogen Peroxide) when powering the steam turbine. The steam turbine powered the pump that fed the LOX into the thrust chamber where the spinning igniter set it off. The alcohol was used to cool the thrust chamber. The sodium permanganate is also known as Z-Stoff. The pic caption un-censored,

It is sorta like rocket science, but the whole idea is to keep us going and doing a little research. I just hope we don't end up hating each other over one another's postings. It is the same as me trying to identify someone from a painting that is 200 years old or a weapon from 2000 years ago. Hell, I wasn't there and for me it wasn't easy either.

I think each of us have a pet subject or topic and when we post something we all learn a bit. Sorry if I caused any bad feelings with my post….

Allen

 

[Tim Marlow]

It’s late, and my thermodynamics is more than a little rusty, however I think it goes like this Rick ....
The bulk chemical absorbs energy to enable the change of state as it evaporates. It will cool the surroundings by doing this. As it thermally re-equilibrates to the surroundings the bulk will reduce in temperature, so reducing the rate of evaporation. The only bit that can actually increase in temperature is the released gaseous phase.......unless the bulk is in a closed vessel and is able to increase in temperature without changing state because it increases pressure instead.....the gas laws are in there somewhere.....
You can test this by the sacrilegious spilling of good alcohol on your skin, you can feel your skin cool as it evaporates....

Jakko, if the catalyst is liquid it will be consumed in the reaction, so will not be a catalyst, just an accelerant, so liquefying it will nullify it’s catalytic qualities.....

Long time since I did chemistry, so I may be way off beam.....I did get a first though, so hope I haven’t forgotten too much LOL....

 

[Jon Heptonstall]

Wow.
take your point re. catalysts and accelerants.
latent heat comes into somewhere too.My 'A'level chemistry was a long time ago!
A quickie before bed-time.
Who's operating this and where?

 

[Lee W]

I'm going for the Polish in Italy?

Lee

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Jon
Can’t believe I typed that lot....
Latent heat is the first bit I explained badly think
I failed A level chemistry, mostly because of the four Bs....got my BSc about fifteen years later.....
I see someone has already posted, so here’s my late guess....it’s somewhere hot, or they’re geordies, so I’ll go Aussies in Burma?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hey Allen, no bad feelings here, I struggle with almost all of these....my method has evolved into a wild guess followed by other slightly less wild guesses....I still think my favourite is Hitler’s barber.....