SteveT
SMF Supporter
Tamiya 1/48th Scale Spitfire Mk Vb
- Thread starter SteveT
- Start date
Waspie
SMF Supporter
I'd like to have thought most paints for models were impervious to water!!!! Is this a new phenomena?
I’m at a loss to be honest. X-20A has alcohol in it so paint thinned with that should not have problems with finger oils. No idea what is going on here……. to be certain, that decal was put on with just water wasn’t it??
SteveT
SMF Supporter
Yes the latest image that decal was just tap water. no decalfix
I assume the paint film is stable and doesn’t come off when handled? It certainly looks it in the pictures. I just don’t get it because Tamiya acrylic basically becomes a plastic film when the solvent evaporates off and it dries, like any other acrylic paint. Redissolving that with water should be like trying to redissolved a boiled egg?
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2018
- Messages
- 10,830
- Points
- 113
- First Name
- Jakko
That’s what I was thinking too: if this is acrylic paint (as I assumed) it should essentially become impervious to water once it’s dry (well, in small amounts, anyway — put it outside in the rain for a year and a lot of paint will be gone). Something odd is going on here, but I can’t put my finger on what it is 
Andy T
SMF Supporter
Sorry to see the trouble you're having Steve, I'd really like to help but like the other guys, I'm a bit stumped!
I've seen similar when people have used the hairspray technique for chipping but I doubt you are into that just yet. The decal water soaks through the paint, activating the hairspray and causes the paint to lift. Maybe there's something else on the surface causing a similar effect, like residual decalfix from your previous attempt? I would have washed it off under a running tap if it had done that to my paint, just to ensure all traces were gone.
I've never used the humbrol varnish but I wonder if that isn't playing nicely with the tamiya paint or X20a. When layering different types of product like that I always try and give them as long as possible to dry. Maybe the water based gloss is sealing the solvents into the tamiya paint so it's not fully cured underneath. It's a long shot, but a possibility.
I'm sorry to be clutching at straws but it's such an unusual situation that I've never come across before.
If I were in your situation I'd move forward by washing the affected area thoroughly to remove any possible contamination, sanding back any dodgy looking paint, then wash and dry thoroughly again. Then restart the process, leaving the paint overnight before varnish (or don't varnish at all before decals). I know it's going backwards but maybe it's better to resolve the issue with this kit to ensure trouble free modelling on your next.
I've seen similar when people have used the hairspray technique for chipping but I doubt you are into that just yet. The decal water soaks through the paint, activating the hairspray and causes the paint to lift. Maybe there's something else on the surface causing a similar effect, like residual decalfix from your previous attempt? I would have washed it off under a running tap if it had done that to my paint, just to ensure all traces were gone.
I've never used the humbrol varnish but I wonder if that isn't playing nicely with the tamiya paint or X20a. When layering different types of product like that I always try and give them as long as possible to dry. Maybe the water based gloss is sealing the solvents into the tamiya paint so it's not fully cured underneath. It's a long shot, but a possibility.
I'm sorry to be clutching at straws but it's such an unusual situation that I've never come across before.
If I were in your situation I'd move forward by washing the affected area thoroughly to remove any possible contamination, sanding back any dodgy looking paint, then wash and dry thoroughly again. Then restart the process, leaving the paint overnight before varnish (or don't varnish at all before decals). I know it's going backwards but maybe it's better to resolve the issue with this kit to ensure trouble free modelling on your next.
Neil Merryweather
SMF Supporter
Very wise words! Stick with it Steve
I’d go with Andy’s advice as well. What he doesn’t know about paint and painting probably isn’t worth knowing.
SteveT
SMF Supporter
It can't be residual decalfix as I always tried to add decals in areas I'd not used before. It went, underside wing, upper wing, fuselage.
as for this model, well I don't see the point in stripping it and repainting it as I've now ruined/destroyed/lost many of the decals as I tried to apply them in different areas and each one did this.
I think this model has come to an end now, it's a shame to leave a lovely Spitfire like this but I'm not going into buying new decalsets etc. I've been talking to other
people about this and they say Humbrol is the problem, I'm really not so sure and don't want to blame them if the issue is me.
I'll be honest, I'm going to take a day or two to consider if I want to continue or just sell all my stuff and give up, sorry if that sounds bad but it's where I am right now.
as for this model, well I don't see the point in stripping it and repainting it as I've now ruined/destroyed/lost many of the decals as I tried to apply them in different areas and each one did this.
I think this model has come to an end now, it's a shame to leave a lovely Spitfire like this but I'm not going into buying new decalsets etc. I've been talking to other
people about this and they say Humbrol is the problem, I'm really not so sure and don't want to blame them if the issue is me.
I'll be honest, I'm going to take a day or two to consider if I want to continue or just sell all my stuff and give up, sorry if that sounds bad but it's where I am right now.
Last edited:
Stefee
SMF Supporter
Steve, I feel your pain. I restarted this model building malarkey about a year ago and ran into similar problem areas but decided to use the "scrap" kit to experiment on for various glues, paints, decals etc. and learnt a lot which I put to use on subsequent kits. Slowly but surely each build is better than the one before, IMO, and the mojo returned.
Take a break, buy a cheap kit and try again.
Keep the faith and trust in your abilities.
Take a break, buy a cheap kit and try again.
Keep the faith and trust in your abilities.
Waspie
SMF Supporter
Steve, even stripping the paint off is a learning exercise in itself. I had to do it to my Tamiya VW Beetle. It's worth it. Back to bare plastic. Clean it all up and start painting again. As for decals. Loads for spits on the internet. May cost a few bob, (less than a tenner). Nil desperandum and all that buddy.
OR, use it as a test bed for experimenting on as has been said.
Decisions - decisions!!!!
OR, use it as a test bed for experimenting on as has been said.
Decisions - decisions!!!!
Andy the Sheep
SMF Supporter
Ditto.
I think we all have some kits that really went bust; I use my several ones as test beds for new paints or whatever I do not dare testing on the kit I actually have on the bench.
Keep a stiff upper lip, Steve, plastic won't get us.
I think we all have some kits that really went bust; I use my several ones as test beds for new paints or whatever I do not dare testing on the kit I actually have on the bench.
Keep a stiff upper lip, Steve, plastic won't get us.
Geoffers
SMF Supporter
Maybe buy a few cheap 1/72 kits.
Don’t worry about the cockpit or other details etc but just build, prime and decal to get some practice.
No massive demoralisation if they don’t go to plan and it will be good practice to develop your skill set.
Geoff.
Don’t worry about the cockpit or other details etc but just build, prime and decal to get some practice.
No massive demoralisation if they don’t go to plan and it will be good practice to develop your skill set.
Geoff.
Andy T
SMF Supporter
Sorry Steve, I was just trying to brainstorm some possibilities, not imply you'd done anything wrong.
I can understand how you feel; this hobby is supposed to be fun, so if it's causing you grief I can see why you're considering throwing in the towel. Please be assured though that many of us have made many mistakes along the way and had problems with the various lotions & potions, so you aren't alone and I hope you get the mojo to have another crack at either this, or something else
I can understand how you feel; this hobby is supposed to be fun, so if it's causing you grief I can see why you're considering throwing in the towel. Please be assured though that many of us have made many mistakes along the way and had problems with the various lotions & potions, so you aren't alone and I hope you get the mojo to have another crack at either this, or something else
SteveT
SMF Supporter
It's funny you mentioned 1/72 kits. I did a 1/72 helicopter a month back and then I decided 1/72 kits were too small for me but I had bought another one.
it's a 1/72 F4 Phantom. I was going to just leave that forever undone or donate it to someone but.. maybe I'll do it just for practice, but we'll see how I feel.
Scratchbuilder
SMF Supporter
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2022
- Messages
- 1,946
- Points
- 113
- First Name
- Mike
Steve,
Have a breather.
Then give the Spitfire a gentle rub down with some 400 or higher wet & dry. Try not to fill the cockpit with water then give it a couple of days to dry out in the airing cupboard or somewhere warm - no not the cooker......
Re-mask the cockpit..
And now you can start again - first primer - use a rattle can from Azon or Halfords or any car shop of grey primer.
Allow 24 hours for this to harden and then give this a gentle rub down with dry paper and wipe with a damp cloth.
Next should come your base coat of grey or green, most people start with grey and allow this time to dry, then mask or cut up the instruction mask and stick it to the model with small bits of BluTac or similar. Then spray on the green.
24 hours later and you should be ready to varnish, do not use an acrylic varnish, but something like Tamiya Clear gloss and spray a couple of light coats over first the top and then the bottom. I know you said you cannot spray in the room but if you have a shed that will suffice so long as it is not -1.
And if you cannot take the fumes then take a look at this, it is what I now use and there are no fumes...
All it cost me was a bit of scepticism and some time, and I am now converted and the room can smell of spring flowers every time I spray.
Decals, during your refit time on the Spit, let me know your address in a PM and I will send you one of my spare sheets for this kit.
We are all with you and as we keep saying we all had our problems, some worse than others, but in the end we got there and so will you.
Mike.
Have a breather.
Then give the Spitfire a gentle rub down with some 400 or higher wet & dry. Try not to fill the cockpit with water then give it a couple of days to dry out in the airing cupboard or somewhere warm - no not the cooker......
Re-mask the cockpit..
And now you can start again - first primer - use a rattle can from Azon or Halfords or any car shop of grey primer.
Allow 24 hours for this to harden and then give this a gentle rub down with dry paper and wipe with a damp cloth.
Next should come your base coat of grey or green, most people start with grey and allow this time to dry, then mask or cut up the instruction mask and stick it to the model with small bits of BluTac or similar. Then spray on the green.
24 hours later and you should be ready to varnish, do not use an acrylic varnish, but something like Tamiya Clear gloss and spray a couple of light coats over first the top and then the bottom. I know you said you cannot spray in the room but if you have a shed that will suffice so long as it is not -1.
And if you cannot take the fumes then take a look at this, it is what I now use and there are no fumes...
Decals, during your refit time on the Spit, let me know your address in a PM and I will send you one of my spare sheets for this kit.
We are all with you and as we keep saying we all had our problems, some worse than others, but in the end we got there and so will you.
Mike.
Don't give up Steve, I'm sure we have all thought that at some point. I cant do 1/72 anymore too small , keep at it.
Last edited:
SteveT
SMF Supporter
I think this is the last update in this thread. I've been asking around and doing a lot of googling and a lot of what I'm seeing is that the humbrol gloss is the cause here.
I'm not sure if it is or isn't but that's what I've been told and what I've read in various places.
I don't plan on doing any more work on this model but I will keep it and use it for testing paint/camo etc. Which is marginally better than it being binned.
as for what i'm doing next, not sure. amusingly I have 3 kits coming to me on wednesday for my birthday.
I will do another kit, just not sure what right now. However I wish to thank all of you for all the help and support you've giving me. See you all in the next one.
I'm not sure if it is or isn't but that's what I've been told and what I've read in various places.
I don't plan on doing any more work on this model but I will keep it and use it for testing paint/camo etc. Which is marginally better than it being binned.
as for what i'm doing next, not sure. amusingly I have 3 kits coming to me on wednesday for my birthday.
I will do another kit, just not sure what right now. However I wish to thank all of you for all the help and support you've giving me. See you all in the next one.
