Andrew's 2x 1/72 S-Model Jagdpanthers

[Mini Me]

Yes Andrew, Those are very nice! looking for more, don't stop now!

 

[adt70hk]

Yes Andrew, Those are very nice! looking for more, don't stop now!

Thanks Rick looking ok aren't they.

I used my best/most expensive/finest AB. Officially it's a Tamiya Superfine AB (0.2mm) needle but actually half of it, including needle and nozzle, are IWATA. I also had a proper play with one of those inline MAC valves to help with the airflow....plus of course the paint consistency, as I was really worried about flooding the surface.

It took a while to get everything balance right but I got there in the end...there were only a couple of spots where it went wrong but I was able to hide it ok.

Just got paint the tracks, tools and a few paint scratches. I'm going to keep the weathering fairly light, as they had not been with the unit for more than a few months at most and in most cases much less than that and also didn't see any action until the end of July.

Thanks as always for the support.

Andrew

 

[adt70hk]

Good evening all

So I have managed to finish the tracks using the following process:

• Touch up the wheels in yellow or green to cover the worst of the overspray.

• Paint the the relevant parts of the road wheels steel where the paint is worn off. You can see this best on the front road wheels but you can just pick out where I did it in between the track teeth too.

• Paint the tracks. I experimented for the first time with the official ' @Dave Ward specially patented track paint method' that he's previously demonstrated. Basically mix black, dark grey, mid-dark brown and steel paints to your taste. This leaves you with a nice darkish grey that has a slight sheen, which is used a starting base. I started with roughly equal proportions of each (I think) but need to play around a bit with it and would like slightly more sheen than I have this first time. It certainly shows promise and it's occurred to me you can achieve a very wide variation of colours simply by varying the ratios slightly

• Paint the rubber on the outer road wheels.

• Finally, touch up where I got careless or slipped!!!
  

They look ok from side on, if obviously very new but, at an angle, they clearly betray the limits of the one piece moulding technique used, as the outer wheels are far too thick......

BUT you have to remember that these are meant for wargaming....so I am not expecting these to be state of the art and perfect in every respect. Plus I got two in a box for less than £16 brand new from China - £8 each, so I can't complain. And they are clearly Jagdpanthers and no mistake!

Even though these are one-piece units, it wasn't that hard in the end and in an odd way was strangely theraputic......no faffing with an AB, booth, masks and the all the associate gubbins....just a couple of brushes and some paint in my steel paint palette - simples!

ACW as usual.

Andrew


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mini Me]

See what you mean about the "thick" road wheels....overall I think you have pulled it off and with a little weathering they should look the bomb. If you are looking for a little more of the metallic effect, I would suggest a steel or silver prisma color pencil to just hit the high spots on the track edges and grousers....this can then be toned down with a wash of your choice.

 

[Jakko]

Paint the the relevant parts of the road wheels steel where the paint is worn off. You can see this best on the front road wheels but you can just pick out where I did it in between the track teeth too.

Eh … sorry, but you just painted the rubber tyres as steel … The rim below the tyres is where paint would rub off and cause bright metal to be visible. Look closely at this photo:



The tyres are dull, then there’s a bright ring, and then the painted rest of the wheel.

 

[Jim R]

Coming on well. Surprisingly detailed for what they are and as you said they do look the part.
I think those MAC valves are a godsend. Far easier than adjusting the pressure on the compressor.

 

[adt70hk]

See what you mean about the "thick" road wheels....overall I think you have pulled it off and with a little weathering they should look the bomb. If you are looking for a little more of the metallic effect, I would suggest a steel or silver prisma color pencil to just hit the high spots on the track edges and grousers....this can then be toned down with a wash of your choice.

Rick

Thank you for the support and the tip on metallic finish duly noted but I'll leave it this time....mainly because I don't have any!

Coming on well. Surprisingly detailed for what they are and as you said they do look the part.
I think those MAC valves are a godsend. Far easier than adjusting the pressure on the compressor.

Hi Jim

Thanks for the support, they won't win any modelling prizes but on a wargaming table, there is no mistaking what you are!!!

Its funny but this is the first time I have really got to grips with the MAC valve and got it to work properly!

Eh … sorry, but you just painted the rubber tyres as steel … The rim below the tyres is where paint would rub off and cause bright metal to be visible. Look closely at this photo:

View attachment 494580

The tyres are dull, then there’s a bright ring, and then the painted rest of the wheel.

Hi Jakko

I see what you mean from your shot.....as you say looking at my Panther wheels have also have the distinctive rim.

I was going on the below reference shot of one from the unit mine will nominally be from and the whole side is shiny. Also, elsewhere, someone provided some close up shots of some in the museum and there is no protruding 'rim' on the side....it very obviously flat and the rubber is largely hidden behind the metal.

Armourfast kits don't a rim but I am taking that with a BIG pinch of salt given their price bracket.

Also the front road inner wheel on your demo shot looks like the ones below but I may be wrong....I can't tell on the second inner wheel on your shot

Is it possible there were two slightly different designs of inner wheel?



Thanks again all!!

ATB

Andrew





Shots for vehicles from the actual unit (allegedly)...as you can see the sides are very bright!





The reference shots I was provided with....definitely no 'lip' on the the rim, unlike mine.

I have also found this one, with 'flatter' sides...

 

[Jakko]

What’s going on is that there is only one type of wheel, but the outer row has the other side outward than the second row. There is a wider rim on the “back”, which of course becomes the front on the second row, and the paint on that eventually wears off completely. I suspect it’s not actually truly flat, because on the photo I posted, it looks like paint has only worn off at the base of that rim and not along its outer edge.

I had forgotten about that wider rim, but the rubber tyre still sticks out beyond it a bit and would be visible as a darker line. Which, altogether, would be very tricky to paint on a 1:72 scale model even if the wheels had been moulded separately

 

[adt70hk]

What’s going on is that there is only one type of wheel, but the outer row has the other side outward than the second row. There is a wider rim on the “back”, which of course becomes the front on the second row, and the paint on that eventually wears off completely. I suspect it’s not actually truly flat, because on the photo I posted, it looks like paint has only worn off at the base of that rim and not along its outer edge.

So Jakko, if I have this right, that 'double' wheel in the middle is not a single wheel as I thought......but is two of exactly the same wheel with the concave sides facing each other, forming a sort of void of sorts? I really do not know much!

I had forgotten about that wider rim, but the rubber tyre still sticks out beyond it a bit and would be visible as a darker line. Which, altogether, would be very tricky to paint on a 1:72 scale model even if the wheels had been moulded separately

I had briefly thought about doing it when I saw the museum close up shots but then decided that given that they're not 'display' pieces, decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Especially as one of them is going to have schürzen on and so most of it won't be visible.

Thanks as always for your input and adding to my understanding!

ATB

Andrew

 

[Jakko]

if I have this right, that 'double' wheel in the middle is not a single wheel as I thought......but is two of exactly the same wheel with the concave sides facing each other, forming a sort of void of sorts?

That’s exactly what it is, yes. Panthers had four rows of roadwheels, even though it doesn’t look like it at first sight. Not the greatest pic, but it shows how this all fit together:

Note that the third axle has the all-steel wheels that a limited number of Panthers got, while the first two have the more usual type like on your Jagdpanthers.

However, I now see I was wrong: the wheels in the middle pair are slightly different from the outer ones, in that they have a wider rim on the side coming into contact with the track teeth, which is lacking on the outer wheels. I’m guessing this is to prevent wear to the rubber. I thought that wider rim was simply on the back of all the wheels.

I had briefly thought about doing it when I saw the museum close up shots but then decided that given that they're not 'display' pieces, decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

Probably not, no

 

[adt70hk]

That’s exactly what it is, yes. Panthers had four rows of roadwheels, even though it doesn’t look like it at first sight. Not the greatest pic, but it shows how this all fit together:

Note that the third axle has the all-steel wheels that a limited number of Panthers got, while the first two have the more usual type like on your Jagdpanthers.

However, I now see I was wrong: the wheels in the middle pair are slightly different from the outer ones, in that they have a wider rim on the side coming into contact with the track teeth, which is lacking on the outer wheels. I’m guessing this is to prevent wear to the rubber. I thought that wider rim was simply on the back of all the wheels.


Probably not, no

Jakko

Thank you so very much for the above.....very helpful and informative. I have never seen it demonstrated so well. Can't help thinking though that VVSS/HVSS systems on Shermans and the like were a lot more straightforward to maintain and replace when damaged!!

Thanks again.

Andrew

 

[BattleshipBob]

Hi Andrew

Very good idea in the design room, but one major design flaw, snow/ ice/ mud build up between them! And a nightmare to change the inner wheels because you have to take two outer wheels to gain access!

There's a video of a restored Panther going at speed over obstructions on a road. The tanks body was very stable.

 

[Jakko]

Can't help thinking though that VVSS/HVSS systems on Shermans and the like were a lot more straightforward to maintain and replace when damaged!!

That is probably also why nobody bothered with interleaved wheels since then They apparently gave a very good ride and low ground pressure (it wasn’t just the wide track that allowed Panthers to cross fields that the much lighter Shermans bogged down in) but having to take off up to seven wheels to change one on the inner row certainly wouldn’t have endeared it to crews. Mud also packed easily between the wheels, and could immobilise the whole vehicle if it then froze.

Later, the all-steel wheels like on the late-model Tiger Is and all Tiger IIs only overlapped instead of being interleaved, to partially solve both these problems, but it still turns out to not be necessary at all given how post-war vehicles don‘t use it at all.

 

[adt70hk]

Hi Andrew

Very good idea in the design room, but one major design flaw, snow/ ice/ mud build up between them! And a nightmare to change the inner wheels because you have to take two outer wheels to gain access!

There's a video of a restored Panther going at speed over obstructions on a road. The tanks body was very stable.

That is probably also why nobody bothered with interleaved wheels since then They apparently gave a very good ride and low ground pressure (it wasn’t just the wide track that allowed Panthers to cross fields that the much lighter Shermans bogged down in) but having to take off up to seven wheels to change one on the inner row certainly wouldn’t have endeared it to crews. Mud also packed easily between the wheels, and could immobilise the whole vehicle if it then froze.

Later, the all-steel wheels like on the late-model Tiger Is and all Tiger IIs only overlapped instead of being interleaved, to partially solve both these problems, but it still turns out to not be necessary at all given how post-war vehicles don‘t use it at all.

Thanks chaps. I've also seen a video of 'Cuckoo' the Panther captured and used by the 6th Guards Tank Brigade and you get a really good view of the suspension and road wheel working.....it looks an incredibly soft ride for such a large vehicle....but as you both say not at all practical!

ATB

Andrew

 

[Magneto]

Hi all

So now the studies are almost complete, I have selected the next victims to fill the month gap between the end of my studies and Andy's Japanese Plane GB. I'm going back to my roots and doing these. Nice and simple quick-build wargaming kits but not bad all the same and two kits in the box

I did buy metal barrels as usual but I should have waited for the kits to arrive before ordering them. The kit ones are quite good, have some nice detail and in any case, I can't make the metal ones work.

I'll be starting these the middle of next week, at which point I'll share some sprue shots!

ATB.

Andrew

I was after their Küblewagen but they seem to be from China only. Nice little kits

 

[Magneto]

Rick

Thank you for the support and the tip on metallic finish duly noted but I'll leave it this time....mainly because I don't have any!




Hi Jim

Thanks for the support, they won't win any modelling prizes but on a wargaming table, there is no mistaking what you are!!!

Its funny but this is the first time I have really got to grips with the MAC valve and got it to work properly!






Hi Jakko

I see what you mean from your shot.....as you say looking at my Panther wheels have also have the distinctive rim.

I was going on the below reference shot of one from the unit mine will nominally be from and the whole side is shiny. Also, elsewhere, someone provided some close up shots of some in the museum and there is no protruding 'rim' on the side....it very obviously flat and the rubber is largely hidden behind the metal.

Armourfast kits don't a rim but I am taking that with a BIG pinch of salt given their price bracket.

Also the front road inner wheel on your demo shot looks like the ones below but I may be wrong....I can't tell on the second inner wheel on your shot

Is it possible there were two slightly different designs of inner wheel?



Thanks again all!!

ATB

Andrew





Shots for vehicles from the actual unit (allegedly)...as you can see the sides are very bright!





The reference shots I was provided with....definitely no 'lip' on the the rim, unlike mine.

I have also found this one, with 'flatter' sides...

View attachment 494620

Awesome shots! Very useful!

 

[adt70hk]

I was after their Küblewagen but they seem to be from China only. Nice little kits

Awesome shots! Very useful!

You're welcome Paul

I actually got this kit from China....I only use AliExpress and have never had any problems.....give it a whirl.

ATB

Andrew

 

[Magneto]

You're welcome Paul

I actually got this kit from China....I only use AliExpress and have never had any problems.....give it a whirl.

ATB

Andrew

I have tried before - shopped away quite happily until the P&P. Then of course you have to make a run against HMRC…
That said it’s nice to know that the items do get through so thanks for that insight!

 

[Magneto]

Rick

Thank you for the support and the tip on metallic finish duly noted but I'll leave it this time....mainly because I don't have any!




Hi Jim

Thanks for the support, they won't win any modelling prizes but on a wargaming table, there is no mistaking what you are!!!

Its funny but this is the first time I have really got to grips with the MAC valve and got it to work properly!






Hi Jakko

I see what you mean from your shot.....as you say looking at my Panther wheels have also have the distinctive rim.

I was going on the below reference shot of one from the unit mine will nominally be from and the whole side is shiny. Also, elsewhere, someone provided some close up shots of some in the museum and there is no protruding 'rim' on the side....it very obviously flat and the rubber is largely hidden behind the metal.

Armourfast kits don't a rim but I am taking that with a BIG pinch of salt given their price bracket.

Also the front road inner wheel on your demo shot looks like the ones below but I may be wrong....I can't tell on the second inner wheel on your shot

Is it possible there were two slightly different designs of inner wheel?



Thanks again all!!

ATB

Andrew





Shots for vehicles from the actual unit (allegedly)...as you can see the sides are very bright!





The reference shots I was provided with....definitely no 'lip' on the the rim, unlike mine.

I have also found this one, with 'flatter' sides...

View attachment 494620

Wow! Now that is an eye opener. You are definitely on track with those inner road wheels - that sheen is well noted!

 

[Scratchbuilder]

Do not worry about the wheels/tracks, you have made a great job of them.